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<blockquote data-quote="simme" data-source="post: 1649328" data-attributes="member: 40418"><p>"Breeding up" in the Simmental registry is as Jeanne described. You can start with any breed - registered or not, even an unknown mixed breed cow. Breed the cow to a purebred simmental bull and the calf is registered as 50% simmental. Breed that heifer to a purebred simmental and the calf is 75%. Once more and the calf is 87.5% simmental which is considered as "purebred". If you start with a known registered cow of another breed (such as angus), the EPD's and pedigree of the beginning cow can be imported into the simmental database and you end up with more accurate EPD's and a deeper pedigree listed. If you have a non-registered cow you start with, you list the breed composition (such as 1/2 Holstein, 1/4 Hereford, 1/4 Charolais) and the simmental association calculates EPD's for your beginning cow based on breed averages and breed composition. Once you reach 87.5% simmental, it is considered as 100% simmental for breeding purposes.</p><p></p><p>The sim-angus is just a percentage simmental. Breeding up works the same whether there is angus or another breed involved. Simmental registry is where the sim-angus are recorded. Angus association registry does not have any of these animals. Now, some angus purebred breeders have started sim-angus programs and have memberships in the simmental association in order to register their sim-angus calves and have EPD's calculated for their sim-angus.</p><p></p><p>The simmental association is obviously not a closed registry. They have a very large database because of that with lots of non-simmental cattle in the database as well as all the registered sim-angus. Many Angus AI bulls are also registered in the simmental database with simmental EPD's calculated/assigned. Simmental association has always pushed crossbreeding for the hybrid vigor. Angus says that they have everything needed genetically in their closed registry. Bringing in outside genetics is allowed in the simmental breed with the advantages and disadvantages. Outside genetics in angus has resulted in some white spots and is not officially allowed. With DNA testing for parentage now required for AI sires and major show winners in some breeds, I understand that not matching to the sire is now an issue in purebred cattle - whether it is an honest mistake or otherwise. </p><p></p><p>Prior to DNA parentage verification, tampering with the genetics in breeds with a closed registry was more common. Hereford and angus for sure in the 80's. There was a Polled Hereford bull KLC RB3 PERFECTION that had the frame and growth of a simmental. When the investigation started, the dam of the bull had suddenly died and no DNA was available, Lot's of money made for a few and lots of money lost for many. Ended in shame and disgrace and lawsuits.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="simme, post: 1649328, member: 40418"] "Breeding up" in the Simmental registry is as Jeanne described. You can start with any breed - registered or not, even an unknown mixed breed cow. Breed the cow to a purebred simmental bull and the calf is registered as 50% simmental. Breed that heifer to a purebred simmental and the calf is 75%. Once more and the calf is 87.5% simmental which is considered as "purebred". If you start with a known registered cow of another breed (such as angus), the EPD's and pedigree of the beginning cow can be imported into the simmental database and you end up with more accurate EPD's and a deeper pedigree listed. If you have a non-registered cow you start with, you list the breed composition (such as 1/2 Holstein, 1/4 Hereford, 1/4 Charolais) and the simmental association calculates EPD's for your beginning cow based on breed averages and breed composition. Once you reach 87.5% simmental, it is considered as 100% simmental for breeding purposes. The sim-angus is just a percentage simmental. Breeding up works the same whether there is angus or another breed involved. Simmental registry is where the sim-angus are recorded. Angus association registry does not have any of these animals. Now, some angus purebred breeders have started sim-angus programs and have memberships in the simmental association in order to register their sim-angus calves and have EPD's calculated for their sim-angus. The simmental association is obviously not a closed registry. They have a very large database because of that with lots of non-simmental cattle in the database as well as all the registered sim-angus. Many Angus AI bulls are also registered in the simmental database with simmental EPD's calculated/assigned. Simmental association has always pushed crossbreeding for the hybrid vigor. Angus says that they have everything needed genetically in their closed registry. Bringing in outside genetics is allowed in the simmental breed with the advantages and disadvantages. Outside genetics in angus has resulted in some white spots and is not officially allowed. With DNA testing for parentage now required for AI sires and major show winners in some breeds, I understand that not matching to the sire is now an issue in purebred cattle - whether it is an honest mistake or otherwise. Prior to DNA parentage verification, tampering with the genetics in breeds with a closed registry was more common. Hereford and angus for sure in the 80's. There was a Polled Hereford bull KLC RB3 PERFECTION that had the frame and growth of a simmental. When the investigation started, the dam of the bull had suddenly died and no DNA was available, Lot's of money made for a few and lots of money lost for many. Ended in shame and disgrace and lawsuits. [/QUOTE]
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