Feeder futures

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farmerjan said:
Not sure of what the purpose would be. Holstein standards means they have to have a white switch on tail and a certain amount of other white... the blacks are beef crosses and grade accordingly... solid black holstein crosses... usually with brown swiss giving them a dark choc or grayish black, take longer to mature since the swiss are slower growing... I see no benefit to a solid black holstein as the type would not feed out as well as a beef cross... and they pass the "black hided" tests many times... why screw up a breed with trying to make it something it is not. The market for the holstein beef is different than the beef animals, and there is a good market for them. I personally don't like the "turning everything black" mentality... if you cross it, the calf is a crossbred... regardless if it is all black or not... and then you get into having these "blacks" into the milking herds and you go backwards with milk production. It is hard enough to get some to recognize the good in the red and white holsteins which is a naturally occurring color... who the he// needs another "black breed" ???
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I couldn't have said it better myself...

Just speculating on people and the current trend to chase a "premium"...
 
If the want to chase a premium. Many dairies are mating to a beef bull.or even wagyu . With the ability to sex semen and the reduced cost and increasing availability of embryo transplants. Only a small percentage of the top genetics are being used for replacements . Then some are used as recip cows. But that leaves about 50 percent or more of the available herd that can be used to generate a profit with their calves because they aren't needed to produce replacements.
 
Rmc said:
If the want to chase a premium. Many dairies are mating to a beef bull.or even wagyu . With the ability to sex semen and the reduced cost and increasing availability of embryo transplants. Only a small percentage of the top genetics are being used for replacements . Then some are used as recip cows. But that leaves about 50 percent or more of the available herd that can be used to generate a profit with their calves because they aren't needed to produce replacements.
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The holstein dairies in this area have been doing that for several years. Breeding the top 1/3 or so of the herd to sexed holstein heifer semen, using straight holstein semen and beef bulls on the lower 1/2 or so of the herd so they get a calf... and as you said, using some for recips especially the registered herds I test that buy embryo's , or that have their own harvested. It is just in the last year that these beef cross BLACK calves here have hit these high prices. There was a big push in the Jersey herds to use beef semen, and I think it was Limousin, and there were actual buyers that were paying to have the jersey's bred this way and guaranteeing to buy the calves. A year ago I could still buy some pretty decent holstein bull calves to graft on cows for $100....now I can't find a twin bull calf at 75 lbs for less than $150-200
 
Calving season is pretty much done here. The twins which were held for graft calves aren't needed and people don't like having to bottle feed them. There was about 8 black Angus calves at the sale on Thursday. For about a $150 average or less you could have had all of them.
 
farmerjan said:
Not sure of what the purpose would be. Holstein standards means they have to have a white switch on tail and a certain amount of other white... the blacks are beef crosses and grade accordingly... solid black holstein crosses... usually with brown swiss giving them a dark choc or grayish black, take longer to mature since the swiss are slower growing... I see no benefit to a solid black holstein as the type would not feed out as well as a beef cross... and they pass the "black hided" tests many times... why screw up a breed with trying to make it something it is not. The market for the holstein beef is different than the beef animals, and there is a good market for them. I personally don't like the "turning everything black" mentality... if you cross it, the calf is a crossbred... regardless if it is all black or not... and then you get into having these "blacks" into the milking herds and you go backwards with milk production. It is hard enough to get some to recognize the good in the red and white holsteins which is a naturally occurring color... who the he// needs another "black breed"
Click to expand...

farmerjan said:
Not sure of what the purpose would be. Holstein standards means they have to have a white switch on tail and a certain amount of other white... the blacks are beef crosses and grade accordingly... solid black holstein crosses... usually with brown swiss giving them a dark choc or grayish black, take longer to mature since the swiss are slower growing... I see no benefit to a solid black holstein as the type would not feed out as well as a beef cross... and they pass the "black hided" tests many times... why screw up a breed with trying to make it something it is not. The market for the holstein beef is different than the beef animals, and there is a good market for them. I personally don't like the "turning everything black" mentality... if you cross it, the calf is a crossbred... regardless if it is all black or not... and then you get into having these "blacks" into the milking herds and you go backwards with milk production. It is hard enough to get some to recognize the good in the red and white holsteins which is a naturally occurring color... who the he// needs another "black breed" ???
Click to expand...
Because then they would be jokingly confused for beef calves is I suspect the point. No need to get amped up. I don't think anyone is trying to rule the world through black cattle.
 
Dave said:
Calving season is pretty much done here. The twins which were held for graft calves aren't needed and people don't like having to bottle feed them. There was about 8 black Angus calves at the sale on Thursday. For about a $150 average or less you could have had all of them.
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And here they would have brought in the $6-800 average .......
 
Market has been good this year. We sold a few weeks ago instead of waiting until July like we normally do.
Steers averaged 656# and brought $1,815 a head.
Heifers averaged 609# and brought $1,545 a head.
Not bad for this raggedy group of calves This group just wasn't as good quality wise as what we've raised in the past. I think the drought we had took a toll on them.
 
farmerjan said:
And here they would have brought in the $6-800 average .......
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Once the cows get turned out there is no need for a graft calf. And ranchers all have 300, 400, or maybe 1,000 cows. They have enough to do and feeding a bottle calf just adds another chore. I am thinking about checking out the price of milk replacer. But I don't know if it is worth doing. Two sacks of milk replacer, 2 sacks of starter grain, hay, and those little dinks still need grain of some sort to keep them growing. How many does a person need to raise to make it worth while?
 
Dave said:
Once the cows get turned out there is no need for a graft calf. And ranchers all have 300, 400, or maybe 1,000 cows. They have enough to do and feeding a bottle calf just adds another chore. I am thinking about checking out the price of milk replacer. But I don't know if it is worth doing. Two sacks of milk replacer, 2 sacks of starter grain, hay, and those little dinks still need grain of some sort to keep them growing. How many does a person need to raise to make it worth while?
Click to expand...
Dave said:
Once the cows get turned out there is no need for a graft calf. And ranchers all have 300, 400, or maybe 1,000 cows. They have enough to do and feeding a bottle calf just adds another chore. I am thinking about checking out the price of milk replacer. But I don't know if it is worth doing. Two sacks of milk replacer, 2 sacks of starter grain, hay, and those little dinks still need grain of some sort to keep them growing. How many does a person need to raise to make it worth while?
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There is a young man in my area who has a few jersey milk cows solely for grafting cheap orphan calves on to. Pretty good idea I thought if you have a few minutes a day to put to it.
 
Silver said:
Around here they still sell pretty well and we aren't near as crowded as Dave's area. People will drive 4+ hours one way for one of the little devils.
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Not as crowded as my area? One road going east/west. None going north/south. It is 15 miles west to the next place. There must only be 6 people other than you and yours in your area..

gcreekrch said:
Yes, cheaper to own a few dairy cows and make it worthwhile than do milk replacer.
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Trouble is no pasture for a dairy cow. She would have to live in the corral and get fed hay. That might not pencil out very well either. By the time I buy a cow and buy her feed...... I think I will pass on the idea.
 
HatCreekCattleco said:
There is a young man in my area who has a few jersey milk cows solely for grafting cheap orphan calves on to. Pretty good idea I thought if you have a few minutes a day to put to it.
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Friend of mine was doing this when they ran about 1,000 head. Local guys would bring him orphan calves also. He said it really took 4 calves sucking her to break even. Of course calves weren't worth much back then though. It would definitely pay now.
 
Dave said:
Not as crowded as my area? One road going east/west. None going north/south. It is 15 miles west to the next place. There must only be 6 people other than you and yours in your area..
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No freeways for 100 miles here (and that's a divided highway, so not really a freeway), 20 miles of gravel just to get to a two lane paved road. Next door neighbour calves 3000 head and takes up a fair bit of real estate. Only Gcreek is less crowded than me near as I can tell. Our "county" is half the size of Oregon.
Just pointing out it's a big old world out there with lots of differences. 😉
 
Silver said:
No freeways for 100 miles here (and that's a divided highway, so not really a freeway), 20 miles of gravel just to get to a two lane paved road. Next door neighbour calves 3000 head and takes up a fair bit of real estate. Only Gcreek is less crowded than me near as I can tell. Our "county" is half the size of Oregon.
Just pointing out it's a big old world out there with lots of differences. 😉
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Yes. Nearest neighbor to the west is 15 miles by road, south it is 40 as the crow flies and 70 by road. East is 70 as crow flies and 140 by road. North is likely 100 crow miles and 8 hours driving to get there. My fellow man is scattered some and I prefer it that way.
Our 'county' I believe is similar in size to yours.
 
gcreekrch said:
Yes. Nearest neighbor to the west is 15 miles by road, south it is 40 as the crow flies and 70 by road. East is 70 as crow flies and 140 by road. North is likely 100 crow miles and 8 hours driving to get there. My fellow man is scattered some and I prefer it that way.
Our 'county' I believe is similar in size to yours.
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Yes, you definitely hold the title for most remote. I can say though that according to Google Earth if I draw a straight line due north to the North Pole it does not intersect another ranch. So that should get me a star or something.
 
Yep. The nurse cow is the way to go.

Used to buy 50 dollar calves and bottle break em. After about 2 weeks when good and healthy, they'd bring 300

It's a lot of work tho!

I bid on the only one Thursday. 75lb red bull calf. Opened at 300. I went 350
When the vet went 375 I let him have it. Figured he needed it more than me
 
Silver said:
No freeways for 100 miles here (and that's a divided highway, so not really a freeway), 20 miles of gravel just to get to a two lane paved road. Next door neighbour calves 3000 head and takes up a fair bit of real estate. Only Gcreek is less crowded than me near as I can tell. Our "county" is half the size of Oregon.
Just pointing out it's a big old world out there with lots of differences. 😉
Click to expand...
I went up the Alcan twice so I have seen your general part of the world and I know that it can be mighty remote. I do have the freeway which goes by. Very little traffic on it and almost none of that traffic is local people. Our little town only has a post office. It is said that the post office serves 130 people. That is every man, woman, and child within a 20 mile radius. Ranches tend to be in clusters in the irrigated valleys. There is about a dozen clustered here. Draw a straight line west it is 50 miles to the next one, north is 65 miles, east and south it is about 25 miles either way. Lots of empty range land surrounding me.
 

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