A big shout out to my Amish neighbors

[Logan52]

I never seen an Amishman or his family at one of the sales with a dog, in the way the "English" carry dogs with them.
They do have dogs at home. Most I've seen are mixed breed mutts, even a few house type of the rat dog sort.
The Amish seem to want to make everything pay its way. If they do have purebreds it is something like a Lab, for which there is a ready market for the sale of pups.
They appear to treat them well, but they might be a little lacking in modern Veterinary care.

 

[jltrent]

My Amish neighbor that joints our property does have a dog, a German Shepard and he has not starved him to death. There are a lot of different Amish factions and that might not be true with other Amish. He does take good care of his horses and cattle from what I can tell. I have talked with him several times about cattle, and he is very concerned about taking good care of them.

 

[chaded]

Do Amish people own a lot of dogs? If they own dogs, is it seen as something useful to the family/farm, or a show of something they don't really need? And if they own dogs, how do they treat them? Are the dogs well trained? What kind of dogs do Amish people own?

Are you writing a book about Amish people?

 

[Travlr]

Are you writing a book about Amish people?

Might beeeee... who wants to know?

Just returning to the Amish topic. And I'm curious. The different people I'm most accustomed to are fundy Mormons.

 

[cowman82]

lived around and been around a lot of amish in 3 states.

some are pretty hardcore.. living near some now that are.. they can't even have a top on their buggy. all black. They ride in the pouring rain and they have a black tarp they put over themselves.

lived by some others that use all machinery.. skid loaders, etc. as long as its used for "work" .. went to some a few months ago. they had 3 buggies and a bunch of horses all tied up.. you went around the barns and they had 3 cars sitting there.

Went to one place in KY .. real nice new amish house.. she opened the door and the AC came rolling out. (these were real amish not mennonites.. I know the difference very well)

dealt with quite a few over the years.. they'll do you right with construction projects but I would never buy an animal off one. I always went to one place and bought a bunch of metal.. I would talk to the one boy there (20's) and tell him about some construction jobs in town.. . next thing I know they have some "english" working there to talk and take orders.. ooops..

I crack up when I see the "amish" on youtube.. and everyone beleives its them.. real amish won't be captured on camera with their faces showing. and these people on there are so far from amish its not even funny.


but keep in mind.. the amish are the fastest growing population in the country.

 

[Brute 23]

Most aggression attributed to breeds is the result of a genetic trait that is either minimal or enhanced. We select for docility when we look at a bulls EPD stats. Of course environment can be a contributing factor.



We breed dogs for our own purposes. Most of the abilities we select for are based in the "prey drive". Herding, pointing birds, retrieving, and rat terriers going into a frantic hysteria to kill rats have all been the result of humans selecting animals that exhibited those abilities as a prey drive and being selected to be bred with each other... concentrating the genes involved in specific abilities.

It isn't that pits are bred to "attack humans". It's that they are bred to focus in an attack... no matter what they are triggered by. If they are triggered by another dog, a horse, or a duck, they focus on that trigger. They have been bred to focus and then to exhibit tenacity and keep focused until the target is destroyed. Training and human contact and environment are all factors... but the underlying genetics is where the tenacity genes are concentrated (or not)

In a litter of pups with a specific bred-in ability, whatever breed is involved, some pups may carry very little ability while others may carry enhanced ability. You can't look at the dogs and tell which of them will be better at their jobs than the others.

With traits that are expressed through multiple genes you can get a wide variety of potential. This is why crossbred pits may be more dangerous than purebreds. A crossbreed can carry more focus and and less tenacity... or it could be the opposite. This is why some dogs are more likely to bite more targets than others.

And you mentioned your own experience. the statistics on what percentage of pit types are involved in biting isn't well documented compared to what percentage are involved in human deaths, for obvious reasons. But the vast majority of pit will never bite, much less kill a person. That does not mean they don't have the genetic makeup that could be triggered.

I hope you are coming to this in good faith with a mind to consider the science involved. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by explaining this.

There is no evidence that supports any attack genes. Pit Bulls, as a breed, have never been been bred to "attack", and in fact have specificly been selected and bred not to be aggressive to humans.

Attacks on humans are due to isolated incidents of abuse in environment.

 

[Travlr]

There is no evidence that supports any attack genes. Pit Bulls, as a breed, have never been been bred to "attack", and in fact have specificly been selected and bred not to be aggressive to humans.

Attacks on humans are due to isolated incidents of abuse in environment.

Apparently my explanation is not clear enough?

I never said they were bred to attack. They are bred to win in a conflict. Two different things.

Tenacity and focus are not the same thing as aggression. I said in another post that pits are no more likely to bite than other breeds.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

Were he lives they have 5 horses for pulling buggies I noticed. I have never seen one riding a horse, but they probably do. Tractors are their main form of transportation, it seems, except for the women as I have never seen one of them driving a tractor, only driving a horse drawn buggy.

They have some nice horses too. I have gotten behind them pulling buggies and they can trot along almost 20mph. With the way the electric car business is being pushed off on us with the horror stories so far, those horses are looking pretty attractive. One Amish has a big black horse that is a thing of beaty to watch him go up the road pulling that buggy.

Long ago I traded a lot with the Amish, they do likefast road horses and will buy a lot of the standard bred horses that don't make it on the track but are still fairly fast. You will see a lot of them on the look out for prospects at the New Holland sale barn

 

[Stonewall Joe]

We use borium on the shoes of our trail horses, the shoes last a minimum of 3 resets now instead of just 1 - and the traction on rocks, etc. is an eye-opener.

you will get a lot of resets on them and you are correct about traction

 

[Stonewall Joe]

The Amish sure have a strong work ethic. But I have heard about and seen pictures of Amish horses that were skinny, used up and poor. They are kind of famous for that. Trotting horses an pavement like that ruins their feet and legs. Why don't the Amish put those rubber pads under the horse shoes like the mounted police have for riding around in cities?

most of their horses are not skinny, they are using horses, to feed poorly or misuse them is not a good practice if you need to use one for transportation. A road horse is far different than a cops horse. Some of the road horses do get padded shoes but again most are shod in the most effective manner so they last longer and have a longer useable life. There is no financial benefit to abuse or poor feeding processes. That's not to say it doesn't happen but it's not a practice.

 

[chaded]

We have a lot of Amish as neighbors and I have yet to see a skinny horse or any in poor condition. I have lived in a couple other areas of the state and can't say I seen it there either. I have family in PA and their Amish neighbors don't starve their horses. I wouldn't say that is something they are 'famous' for..