Foxconn

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boondocks

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Curious how our Wisconsin CTers view the deal to give Foxconn $3billion (yes, with a B) to build a plant?
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/18/news/sc ... index.html
Works out to a subsidy of $15,000-$19,000 per job per year, IF the company hires 13,000 people. (They projected hiring at 3000 to 13000). Obviously, if they don't hit those targets, the per job/per year subsidy is much higher?
One the one hand, yay jobs. (Or, to South Park fans, jerbs).
On the other hand, I've seen a few such subsidies (smaller scale, same principle) not pan out when the factory didn't meet its hiring commitments; or closed anyway (after being paid to stay).
Good use of public money? Any safeguards in place?

[can we please address this as an economic issue, not partisan? :wave: ]
 
boondocks":12x6gtwz said:
Curious how our Wisconsin CTers view the deal to give Foxconn $3billion (yes, with a B) to build a plant?
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/18/news/sc ... index.html
Works out to a subsidy of $15,000-$19,000 per job per year, IF the company hires 13,000 people. (They projected hiring at 3000 to 13000). Obviously, if they don't hit those targets, the per job/per year subsidy is much higher?
One the one hand, yay jobs. (Or, to South Park fans, jerbs).
On the other hand, I've seen a few such subsidies (smaller scale, same principle) not pan out when the factory didn't meet its hiring commitments; or closed anyway (after being paid to stay).
Good use of public money? Any safeguards in place?

[can we please address this as an economic issue, not partisan? :wave: ]
Click to expand...

I would imagine you would have to pay a company to build a factory in any state that doesn't have right to work laws or labor runs everything.
Walker got it to right to work bet it doesn't stay.
 
Caustic Burno":2qhnsvwp said:
I would imagine you would have to pay a company to build a factory in any state that doesn't have right to work laws or labor runs everything.
Walker got it to right to work bet it doesn't stay.
Click to expand...

Sorry CB, not following. Are you saying WI currently is quote-unquote "right to work" state?
 
If anyone ever talks to me about the "free market" and b!tches about bailouts to GM, AIG, Fanny Mae, etc, this should be RIGHT UP THERE on the list of gripes.

I'm sure that even with the subsidy, once it runs out they'll go back to China, if they can even make it that long. I also think the number of jobs created is a high estimate... maybe at first they'll have that many, then they'll automate more and put half of them back out of work again.
Ever the optimist I am.
 
Nesikep":1wfagpoj said:
If anyone ever talks to me about the "free market" and b!tches about bailouts to GM, AIG, Fanny Mae, etc, this should be RIGHT UP THERE on the list of gripes.

I'm sure that even with the subsidy, once it runs out they'll go back to China, if they can even make it that long. I also think the number of jobs created is a high estimate... maybe at first they'll have that many, then they'll automate more and put half of them back out of work again.
Ever the optimist I am.
Click to expand...

Math wasn't my favorite "subjeck" but it looks like if they hit towards the lower end of the hiring target (rather than the higher end), that the taxpayers will be paying Foxconn potentially $70-80k/yr/job? (maybe there's a reason "conn" is right there in the name? :lol: )
I dunno about this whole global economy thing. Seems like a global redistribution of wealth to me. But would love to hear well-reasoned opinions contra.
 
What chaffs my arse is that companies going to china, with cheap labor STILL can't afford to give you a quality product.. We bought a wooden table, and the corners on it are sooo darned sharp, etc... for five cents of labor they could have a person with a little hand planer knocking the corners off. In most cases the materials are the same (or at least could be), the engineering is the same, the quality control is lacking
 
boondocks":1a9uyi6s said:
Caustic Burno":1a9uyi6s said:
I would imagine you would have to pay a company to build a factory in any state that doesn't have right to work laws or labor runs everything.
Walker got it to right to work bet it doesn't stay.
Click to expand...

Sorry CB, not following. Are you saying WI currently is quote-unquote "right to work" state?
Click to expand...

Wi is currently right to work state I don't think that status will remain after Walker. The state is blue.
 
I heard about it the other day not real impressed. I live in far northern Wisconsin most around here consider this a separate state. Views up here are way more conservative and from talking around a little most were upset with the deal. That plant being that far south I don't think is gonna do the "great" boost in economy as they say. I know our state prides itself on industry but this deal seems to benefit foxconn way more than the state for now. I guess we'll wait and see. Just another government hack job that will get lost in space in a couple years and everyone will forget about except those who got heavy pockets from the deal.
 
Nesikep":2sfhpv2c said:
What chaffs my arse is that companies going to china, with cheap labor STILL can't afford to give you a quality product.. We bought a wooden table, and the corners on it are sooo darned sharp, etc... for five cents of labor they could have a person with a little hand planer knocking the corners off. In most cases the materials are the same (or at least could be), the engineering is the same, the quality control is lacking
Click to expand...

Yet you bought the table instead of commissioning a true craftsman for a custom built table. Does the true problem lie with the chicken, or the egg? Not picking on you, Nesikep, but you gave a good example. Cheap is cheap. They will make it function for as little investment as possible, so the margin is maximized. That 5 cents multiplied by millions of tables = a chit ton of General Tso's kitty cat.
 
We're subsidizing all sorts of workers, and their benefits. Walmart, McDonalds', etc. Those folks can't make enough money for insurance, good housing, etc (and I don't believe that a burger flipper should, but that's a different topic). The CEO's, and the board are making bank and we're all on the hook. Welcome to Free Market Capitalism. Is there a better system? No. It beats the heck out of Communism and Fascism, but it there could be a way that things could be better. I'd like to see some tariffs introduced. I'd like to see companies penalized for taking their labor overseas. But will this fix the problem? No. The literal ship has sailed, for China, and it isn't coming back.
 
I don't really follow what the article is saying. Is the state going to give them money? I mean write them a check that came from the pockets of other taxpayers? Or are they just going to not tax them like they would any other business and let them keep their money? The article only speaks of tax credits and exemptions if I'm reading it right so this is their money they get to keep I assume. So does this actually cost the state anything other than the opportunity to tax a company $10 billion dollars. I might be missing something here but if I were thinking of opening a company and I knew it was going to cost me $10 billion dollars of my real money in taxes to pay for bureaucracy and wasteful programs I think I'd look for another place to build the company. Maybe China. But maybe I'm reading it wrong. I don't know. Only problem I see with my vague understanding is why they don't extend this same deal to every business.
 
Farm Fence Solutions":wecqapv2 said:
Nesikep":wecqapv2 said:
What chaffs my arse is that companies going to china, with cheap labor STILL can't afford to give you a quality product.. We bought a wooden table, and the corners on it are sooo darned sharp, etc... for five cents of labor they could have a person with a little hand planer knocking the corners off. In most cases the materials are the same (or at least could be), the engineering is the same, the quality control is lacking
Click to expand...

Yet you bought the table instead of commissioning a true craftsman for a custom built table. Does the true problem lie with the chicken, or the egg? Not picking on you, Nesikep, but you gave a good example. Cheap is cheap. They will make it function for as little investment as possible, so the margin is maximized. That 5 cents multiplied by millions of tables = a chit ton of General Tso's kitty cat.
Click to expand...
You need a table, you go shopping, there are no skillfully crafted tables, you are forced to buy what there is. We managed to find a table that wasn't plastic.
My dad is in fact one of those skilled craftsmen, but we had bigger fish to fry than spending time building it ourselves.
 
Jogeephus":us6226wk said:
I don't really follow what the article is saying. Is the state going to give them money? I mean write them a check that came from the pockets of other taxpayers? Or are they just going to not tax them like they would any other business and let them keep their money? The article only speaks of tax credits and exemptions if I'm reading it right so this is their money they get to keep I assume. So does this actually cost the state anything other than the opportunity to tax a company $10 billion dollars. I might be missing something here but if I were thinking of opening a company and I knew it was going to cost me $10 billion dollars of my real money in taxes to pay for bureaucracy and wasteful programs I think I'd look for another place to build the company. Maybe China. But maybe I'm reading it wrong. I don't know. Only problem I see with my vague understanding is why they don't extend this same deal to every business.
Click to expand...

I think that's a perfect explanation of what's happening or not happening. :clap: What puzzles me is why any business would do business in states with a personal income tax and high corporate taxes? Florida, Texas and Tennessee are open for business. Less taxes is better for the working people.
 
Jogeephus":f6tbb8w3 said:
I don't really follow what the article is saying. Is the state going to give them money? I mean write them a check that came from the pockets of other taxpayers? Or are they just going to not tax them like they would any other business and let them keep their money? The article only speaks of tax credits and exemptions if I'm reading it right so this is their money they get to keep I assume. So does this actually cost the state anything other than the opportunity to tax a company $10 billion dollars. I might be missing something here but if I were thinking of opening a company and I knew it was going to cost me $10 billion dollars of my real money in taxes to pay for bureaucracy and wasteful programs I think I'd look for another place to build the company. Maybe China. But maybe I'm reading it wrong. I don't know. Only problem I see with my vague understanding is why they don't extend this same deal to every business.
Click to expand...
From - https://9to5mac.com/2017/07/28/wisconsi ... k-per-job/


It would include up to $1.5 billion in state income tax credits for jobs created,
up to $1.35 billion in credits for capital investment and
up to $150 million in sales tax exemptions on construction materials.
 
Nesikep":3adyrxlp said:
Until it's here shipping will make it prohibitively expensive.. like anything else we want
Click to expand...

I was really just planting the seeds for your next project. Those materials are available all over North America....Free shipping. The neighbor that makes the chairs and tables out of the road signs reminds me of you quite a bit.
 

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