Zach -- our new Aubrac bull

[djinwa]

I know they're good cattle; I don't need a university (or some other producer) to tell me that.

Ok, here's where you're losing me. The point of science is is to eliminate bias. Until you have a scientific study, people will assume you have a biased opinion.

So the sooner you can use the scientific method to prove your opinion, the easier your marketing will be.

It appears you're afraid the results might not agree with your opinion.

 

[WalnutCrest]

What are some price ranges for Aubrac bulls and heifers in the US? Seems the better bulls in France are €3500+, just wondering how that compares. thanks

That's a reasonable range. I know good yearling bulls are trading hands via private treaty for 2500-5000, 1-2 year old bulls for 3500-8000 and more experienced bulls vary, depending on quality, genetics, phenotype and productivity.

 

[WalnutCrest]

I know they're good cattle; I don't need a university (or some other producer) to tell me that.

Ok, here's where you're losing me. The point of science is is to eliminate bias. Until you have a scientific study, people will assume you have a biased opinion.

So the sooner you can use the scientific method to prove your opinion, the easier your marketing will be.

It appears you're afraid the results might not agree with your opinion.

I can't speak for all Aubracs producers, but I can tell you the money we've spent in the last year has been spent on DNA marker identification, buying quality live cattle, making embryos and conducting live taste tests of our beef. We are planning on taking some beef through analysis at K-State next year and collecting Zach (among other things).

I'm not afraid of any sort of science. It is expensive and I'm not made of money. I do hope it'll happen ... the key is to construct a test that's verifiable and reputable and won't break the bank.

I do have some tests others have done, but they were done years ago by producers who've since retired ... the results were really pretty solid. I'll see if I can find the original reports over the next few days / weeks.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

He looks like a really nice, stout bull. I like his calves a lot. I hope that he works out well for you.

 

[ram]

Around here there are several college bull test stations. They will do all the work, keep all the records and feed them a weighed ration daily. We had a Simmental breeder on here that was supposed to bring a real bull to the Florida bull test. He ran his mouth then he backed out, I guess he showed us.

 

[Muddy]

Around here there are several college bull test stations. They will do all the work, keep all the records and feed them a weighed ration daily. We had a Simmental breeder on here that was supposed to bring a real bull to the Florida bull test. He ran his mouth then he backed out, I guess he showed us.

Oh yeah I remembered that guy. I thought he was a simbrah breeder?

 

[ram]

There Simmental and Sim-Angus breeders, Muddy. He has some very fine stock, and is really into the numbers game. But talk is cheap.

 

[johnhhaskell]

I know they're good cattle; I don't need a university (or some other producer) to tell me that.

Ok, here's where you're losing me. The point of science is is to eliminate bias. Until you have a scientific study, people will assume you have a biased opinion.

So the sooner you can use the scientific method to prove your opinion, the easier your marketing will be.

It appears you're afraid the results might not agree with your opinion.

The breeders in the Massif Central know they're good cattle, but that doesn't prevent them from having a test station and running all the top bulls through it. In fact, 50+ years of running their top bulls through the test station is why the cattle are so good. So: numbers> no numbers

 

[WalnutCrest]

I know they're good cattle; I don't need a university (or some other producer) to tell me that.

Ok, here's where you're losing me. The point of science is is to eliminate bias. Until you have a scientific study, people will assume you have a biased opinion.

So the sooner you can use the scientific method to prove your opinion, the easier your marketing will be.

It appears you're afraid the results might not agree with your opinion.

The breeders in the Massif Central know they're good cattle, but that doesn't prevent them from having a test station and running all the top bulls through it. In fact, 50+ years of running their top bulls through the test station is why the cattle are so good. So: numbers> no numbers

So, on that note:

One of the bulls we're using at AI and for making embryos is named Andalou. He's one of the French bulls that made it through their testing station. In the last seven years (since he was approved eight years ago for AI collection, and performance monitoring, etc.), he's sired 1487 calves in 291 herds, and has 413 daughters in production. His calves are measured at coming 1.4 standard deviations easier than the average calf (meaning the calves are small), with a 98% accuracy. His calves are 2.0 standard deviations above breed average for muscle development (and no, he's not double muscled; the French tested for that). His calves are 3 standard deviations above breed average for a variety of width and depth measurements.

Another of the bulls we're using in AI and for embryo production is Orfevre. He's put down 3261 calves in 421 herds in the last 15 years; he has 1399 daughters in production and 4106 grandsons and granddaughters in production. His calves' growth rate is 2.1 standard deviations above breed average with 98% accuracy. He's 0.9 standard deviations above breed average for muscle development with 99% accuracy. The effect his daughters have on his grandsons and granddaugthers' weaning weights is 1.0 standard deviations above breed average with a 98% accuracy.

Then, there's Impresario ... another of our bulls in the AI / ET rotation. He's produced 1725 calves in 326 herds over the last 20 years. He has 736 daughters in production and 1934 grandsons and granddaugthers in production. His daughters take with their first AI service 0.9 standard deviations more frequently than breed average and his daughters productive life is 0.5 standard deviations longer than the average Aubrac cow.

Or, maybe we should look Heros. Heros was only brought in for testing after his daughters born via natural service were tested when they gave their first calf --- they were so far off the charts as it regarded various maternal traits (size of calves, ease of calving of his daughters, milk production, weaning weights of his calves and grandsons and granddaughters, etc.) that he was brought in and collected. So, even though he came to be tested for AI collection in an unusual manner (and therefore was lightly used outside of his home herd), he's sired 525 calves in 107 herds over the last 21 years; he has 206 daughters who entered production and has 804 grandsons and granddaughters who entered production ... nearly four grandkids for every kid. Very productive cattle. In fact, Orfevre's dam was sired by a Heros son. We've reverse sorted semen in the production of IVF embryos and have two heifer calves coming this next spring, one on the ground now and we AI'd two more girls to him today for calves next fall. I believe we have 100% of the Heros semen outside of France.

The French measure things differently than we do in the US; because they do, it doesn't mean they're not tested. And, just because they're tested doesn't mean they're tested the same way many breeds test here.

So, when I was referring to wanting to do some tests, I was referring to the "US sorts of tests." And, many of these tests cost money and take time. We've done some tests, and we'll do more over time.

If you want to go search for Aubrac info, go to this website and search to your heart's content ==> http://idele.fr/services/outils/index-o ... reaux.html

 

[KNERSIE]

You've got a great herdbull, your fullblood cows are good, the calves are good, you're not targeting the mainstream market so stop defending your herd and uour breed. Let them speak for themselves.

 

[Muddy]

You've got a great herdbull, your fullblood cows are good, the calves are good, you're not targeting the mainstream market so stop defending your herd and uour breed. Let them speak for themselves.

+ gazillion.