Young Heifers calving - what would you do

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f4leggin":3fu5rst0 said:
I have an appt for the heifers to be preg checked monday...

Jill

Wise decision, be sure to ask which ones can still be safely aborted and discuss a plan of action with the vet, not only for the problem at hand, but also to prevent this happening again. Remember bulls don't have moral values and there is no such thing as statutary rape in the bovine world.
 
TNMasterBeefProducer":2fmw8cr1 said:
Apparently so. Seems to me that is what they are insinuating. I got the certificate to prove I am a master beef producer. Been in the cattle business off and on longer than you been alive. So your the one whos knowledge is mediocre at best. You might be aware of the new ways but I have had cattle nearly all my life and I am 60 years old. So when you get my age and have had cattle as long as I have then give me a call. Until then I dont think you are qualified to spout off at the mouth about something you know obviously nothing about. YOU are just a young kid that thinks they know everything and they dont. You claim to be an ex cop or something. You wouldnt have been no cop around these parts to long. Someone would have put a cap in ya for being a no it all irritant. I am not going to comment on this idiotic post that you made anymore. You do not know me so quit trying to pretend you do. I am asking you this one and only time to cease and desist all communication with me including but not limited to they hijacking of my posts. GOOD day MR!

There's the old TTCLM I remember!!
 
f4leggin":355afcjh said:
I have an appt for the heifers to be preg checked monday...

Jill

Good idea Jill. As Knersie said, be sure to ask the vet about each one of them, and what his suggestion would be. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
 
dun":1kolni5b said:
hopalong":1kolni5b said:
TNMasterBeefProducer":1kolni5b said:
This is one of them people that comes on here asking for advice. They get good advice and then go and do the opposite and then moan and complain and cry when crap hits the fan even though you done told em so. That is my pet peeve.

Do not let this so called PERSON deter you, he is far from being a master beef producer and his knowledge is only mediocre ar best.

Are you insinuating that not every problem can be fixed with a shot of Dex and LA200?

:eek: :shock: Say it isn't so! OMG, now I'm going to actually have to learn about cattle! :shock:
 
rockridgecattle":1duv7vg6 said:
Calves are born with zero immunity. When they calve on dirty ground, they can become host to many infections such as navel ill and scours. Navel ill hits fast and furious. Scours, well, they can be a challenge. Because these hiefers are young, the colostrum will be not great. RR

Not if the mother's are vaccinated. Scours are easily controlled - even in heifers - by Scour-Guarding the mothers. As far as navel ill is concerned, it can easily be prevented by either dipping the navel or using navel clamps.
 
Yes the mother if vaccinated will have some antibodies that she will pass on in the colostrum, but she will not have as much or as good quality as a seasoned cow. The young hiefer has not been exposed to as many pathogens. As well this cow is younger than most, and has probably not had scour vaccines. They might get some immunity with the oral calf vaccine.
As well with Navel ill you can dip the navel and prevent infection yes. But if the ground is saturated with bacteria the umbilcal cord acts like a sponge and sucks it up, thus an infection. All you would need is a dirty mudy ground with no bedding. Next, what if the owner does not not get their right at the drop of the calf. It does not take long for the navel to suck up the bacteria. got that t shirt.
In the end only management can give this calf a excellent fighting chance.
 
I am sure the calf will be fine.

Some on here already have the calf dead or dying.

You do need to be prepared and expect the worst. But lets focus on getting the calf here and getting mama properly fed to keep her growing while nursing a calf. A little extra feed will help, dont founder her.Do this after the calf is born not before. I would wean the calf early. Some people may not approve of this but if you plan on keeping her I would.Just my two cents not worth anything. JHH
 
Wow, while it isn't ideal to have a heifer calving at a young age, it isn't the end of the world either. Here is a post I did a while back about a heifer we had that calved at 16 months old. We did have to assist her, but it wasn't a big deal. She calved for the second time this spring with no problems, and about a month earlier than she did last spring.


http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewto ... ung+heifer
 
I am reading this whole topic for the first time, and while i am a few days late, i wanted to make a comment. Respect in this world isn't given to people just because of titles, papers, age, or the knowledge they say they know. It can't be demanded from someone, only earned. Honesty, integrity, and personal conduct earn that respect. This being a q and a board, the only thing we know about others is what they say and almost more importantly how they say it. Without having met anyone on this board, some have still earned my respect.
 
rockridgecattle":8p7ce4rk said:
Yes the mother if vaccinated will have some antibodies that she will pass on in the colostrum, but she will not have as much or as good quality as a seasoned cow. The young hiefer has not been exposed to as many pathogens. As well this cow is younger than most, and has probably not had scour vaccines. They might get some immunity with the oral calf vaccine.
As well with Navel ill you can dip the navel and prevent infection yes. But if the ground is saturated with bacteria the umbilcal cord acts like a sponge and sucks it up, thus an infection. All you would need is a dirty mudy ground with no bedding. Next, what if the owner does not not get their right at the drop of the calf. It does not take long for the navel to suck up the bacteria. got that t shirt.
In the end only management can give this calf a excellent fighting chance.

Dang rockridge, you're sounding like the grim reaper here! :shock: How about a little positive thinking? Cows have been having calves for thousands of years with no human intervention, and the vast majority of those calves somehow seem to make it. I can honestly say that we - for the more anal-rententive, literal members of this board, notice I said WE, not I - calved out cows for 50+ years, never dipped a naval, never used a naval clamp, and never had a naval infection even in the 'nasty' corrals.
 
I can honestly say that we - for the more anal-rententive, literal members of this board, notice I said WE, not I - calved out cows for 50+ years, never dipped a naval, never used a naval clamp, and never had a naval infection even in the 'nasty' corrals.

We don't always agree, but I agree on this. I don't calve in corrals and never dip navals and so far have never had a case of naval infection. In the time my dad had a dairy and the cows spent the night in the corral there was a few stray cases over the years.

If you do calve in a corral I would never say don't dip navals as I think its good practice, but out in the pasture or veld like in my case you're unlikely to to be able to dip every naval soon after birth and I would consider you very unlucky if you do get a case of naval ill because of bacteria that entered the naval because the cow just happened to calve on a spot of muck in a couple hundred of acres.
 
f4leggin":vzx7l1v2 said:
I have a group (5) of 17-18 month old heifers penned, one is obviously going to calve soon - she's bagged up - none of the others have any sign of a bag. I took the bull out in late January this year. It seems like if they are going to calve, it would be before the end of October. I'm going to keep the bagged up one penned, would you release the others, and watch for signs of bagging up, or keep them all penned for the next month. The pasture they would be released to is about 80 acres. The draw back of having them penned is they don't have shelter from the rain/snow. My inclination is to keep them all penned.



Thanks - Jill
msscamp":vzx7l1v2 said:
Dang rockridge, you're sounding like the grim reaper here! :shock: How about a little positive thinking? Cows have been having calves for thousands of years with no human intervention, and the vast majority of those calves somehow seem to make it. I can honestly say that we - for the more anal-rententive, literal members of this board, notice I said WE, not I - calved out cows for 50+ years, never dipped a naval, never used a naval clamp, and never had a naval infection even in the 'nasty' corrals.


ok you might think i am the grim reaper. Here is my reality check...the reality i live in.
Year 2004
Calved in our calving area
area to small for our growing herd...we increased by about 20% that year
wet spring
snow and rain
soupy water on the ground in places and clean bedding
in two weeks 60 cows calved all calves navel dipped at the time of birth. We are out with out calves quite a bit during calving
in one day 9 out of the 10 calves that calved that day got navel ill...our first year of navel ill. We noticed problems 12-24 hours after birth. All got the dip right as soon as the calf dropped on the ground and then again when tagged and bagged because of the wet area. One got it so bad that it died several months later. It was the first calf to get it and we dropped the ball on the treatment.
then next two weeks we had to treat every calf born because the navel ill was contagious. What happened was a sick calf layed down in the straw, got up and left. A young calf with a wet navel laid in the same place and got sick...per our vet since she was out many times that year
If i sound like a "grim reaper" sorry but the reality is this could happen in an enclosed pen, with lack of clean dry bedding, and crowding, and wet cold damp weather.
yes they calved 1000 of years with out us. But they did not have us putting them in pens. They calved in the open pasture usually in the drier part of the spring.
 
I took 4 of them to the vet today - didn't take the 5th - she is obviously going to deliver soon, didn't want to stress her with the trip. The trip itself probably wasn't that stressful - loading them into the trailer - that was quite an ordeal - I'm glad she wasn't part of that. 3 of the 4 are pregnant - 2-3 months - which is great news. The 4th could be pregnant less than 30-60 days. The vet was very helpful, we discussed a vacination schedule, wormer schedule etc.. After being checked, all 4 were very happy to walk calmly back on to the trailer. I took a good look at his shute, trailer loading set up, and have some good ideas on how to improve my set-up so that loading and working the cattle isn't so dangerous for the people and stressful for the cattle. I got a good kick on my upper thigh - it's sore, but all in all not a bad place to get kicked, it was a stupid move on my part that got me kicked.

I talked with him about the 5th heifer left at home, at his advice, I released her when I got back. He suggested I check her morning and night and we talked about what to do if there is a problem.
Thanks for all the advice -

Jill
 
Good deal Jill!

Trailer Loading, IMO, is prob my least favorite activity...but a good set-up definantly makes it more bearable.

Glad your vet was helpful! Heres to 4 healthy calves being born.
 
rockridgecattle":qkjybtli said:
msscamp":qkjybtli said:
Dang rockridge, you're sounding like the grim reaper here! :shock: How about a little positive thinking? Cows have been having calves for thousands of years with no human intervention, and the vast majority of those calves somehow seem to make it. I can honestly say that we - for the more anal-rententive, literal members of this board, notice I said WE, not I - calved out cows for 50+ years, never dipped a naval, never used a naval clamp, and never had a naval infection even in the 'nasty' corrals.


ok you might think i am the grim reaper.

Re-read, I did not say that - I said you're sounding like the grim reaper.

Here is my reality check...the reality i live in.
Year 2004
Calved in our calving area
area to small for our growing herd...we increased by about 20% that year
wet spring
snow and rain
soupy water on the ground in places and clean bedding
in two weeks 60 cows calved all calves navel dipped at the time of birth. We are out with out calves quite a bit during calving
in one day 9 out of the 10 calves that calved that day got navel ill...our first year of navel ill. We noticed problems 12-24 hours after birth. All got the dip right as soon as the calf dropped on the ground and then again when tagged and bagged because of the wet area. One got it so bad that it died several months later. It was the first calf to get it and we dropped the ball on the treatment.
then next two weeks we had to treat every calf born because the navel ill was contagious. What happened was a sick calf layed down in the straw, got up and left. A young calf with a wet navel laid in the same place and got sick...per our vet since she was out many times that year
If i sound like a "grim reaper" sorry but the reality is this could happen in an enclosed pen, with lack of clean dry bedding, and crowding, and wet cold damp weather.
yes they calved 1000 of years with out us. But they did not have us putting them in pens. They calved in the open pasture usually in the drier part of the spring.

I'm really sorry that this happened to you - it isn't fair and it sucks. The bottom line is that it happens to every cattle producer at one time or another, and it usually has nothing whatsoever with what the producer is doing or not doing. If you're going to raise them, you're going to lose them - and that includes the fact that sometimes it will be en masse. We lost the vast majority of our calf crop quite a number of years ago - I think I was around 11 years old, so that would make it about 38 years ago - due to moldy sweet clover in alfalfa hay. Several years later - I was 17, maybe 18 at that time - we lost the vast majority of our calf crop due to 'death scours' (I now know that 'death scours' are caused by cryptosporidium). The first time there was nothing we could do except watch them keel over and die. The second time we figured out pretty damn quick that it was infectious, we sprayed with bleach, we kept the calving mothers out of the barn, we moved first time heifers to a different pen as far away from the infected site as possible, we did everything we could think of - it didn't make one bit of difference. **** happens! What is important is what the producer does with that ****, how he/she handles it, and where he/she goes from there. I'm not sure this post makes sense (it's been a bit of long day around here), but you can either play the victim, or you can pull yourself up by the bootstraps and carry on in a lifestyle you love - but I know you cannot do both.
 
An update - the 5th heifer who I knew was going to deliver soon had a bull calf today. We had to pull it which was an incredible experience for us (myself and my horse friend who I called for moral support) - but it ended up fine. We thought for sure the calf was dead. Not having any experience with this sort of thing, it was as I'm sure it is for others who haven't done it before. I checked on her at 1 pm and saw two feet in the right position, watched her for about a hour and saw no good progress, walked her up the pen - and started trying to figure out how one goes about pulling a calf out from a heifer that won't stand still and let you get near. After awhile of watching and no progress, we put her in a small spot waited for the feet to come out, put some chains on the feet and the next time she started contracting, we started pulling. Thankfully the calf was in the right position, she just couldn't push it out on her own. Once we had it pulled alittle further along, she really got to business and helped us out by pushing as hard as we were pulling. The calf was born at 4:30 pm.

The funny thing is at one point, I said, I bought this calf puller awhile back, do you think we should try it out.. I pulled it out of the box, it had no instructions, lots of pieces, I thought there is no way I'm going to figure this one out - but it did have this small chain in there - and I thought that would be a good thing to pull with - we had been trying rope and other things that just wouldn't stay on. So, we used the chain (and found another one for the other foot) worked like a charm.

Flame suit on.

Jill
 
yeah!!!!
Now watch and make sure the calf gets a good suck or two of colostrum before 12 hours are up, watch and make sure the momma can handle the calf and still grow herself.
Learn how to use the puller before the next one!

good luck.
 
MSScamp, sorry to have mis quoted you, long days here too, understood your post.
No victim here, just realizing our mistakes and taking action to prevent them, and passing on the experience in hopes it helps someone else.
I now need to find my bed, been a long day.
 

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