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I'm not a "show jock" - but, yes, my cattle bring somewhat more than the average Joe's. And, yes, looks is part of the package needed for top dollar cattle. Along with pedigree, structural correctness, fertility and reputation that our cattle work for others in their environment as easy keepers.
I'm not a MULTIPLIER producing sides of beef. I am a BREEDER producing breeding stock and most of my males go for sides of beef - outperforming most steers produced in our area. Over the past 5 years, I've averaged over $700/head for weaned steers. How about you?
 
Aero":qj9kibrs said:
HerefordSire":qj9kibrs said:
Aero":qj9kibrs said:
if you are selling animals on looks, it's a whole different world and commercial economics dont apply.
Nice post. Is there much money in selling by looks instead of edible beef?

for some show jocks there are. for me there is not.


Jeanne - Simme Valley...very nice animals as always.

Aero...I have never shown an animal but I have always wondered why shows exist to justify the additional money, especially in a recession. Would it be fair to say an additonal $1,000 is paid for a show animal relative to a steer with edible beef? I can understand a parent wanting their children to be around livestock instead of mind altering substances, among other good benefits. This would be worth extra some money for sure. Do the children compete with grownups or do they separate adults from the children? Also, is it possible for an adult multiplier to flood the market with show animals and make good money since it seems like the prices could be high? The reason I ask is... times are tough as you know, and it would help an operation to generate some non-edible beef revenue and leverage a land base so one can pay for important items a commercial cattleman needs.
 
It is just like Hereford (or any other) seedstock, if you have the money, the recips, and the grass you can rapidly flood the local market with show steers (or breeding bulls/reg heifers). The question then is: can you grow the market (ie draw new show steer buyers to the game) or can you steal the market from the people that already sell the steers (seedstock)? If you are selling anything but commodity beef, the marketing is generally harder than the production.
 
The true "club calf" show steer market is a tough one. Yes, the steer jockeys are willing to pay BIG bucks for a top quality show steer. But these sellers have years of breeding that "type" of steer. You are talking a specific phenotype PLUS the "right" kind of HAIR. Hair is almost more important to them than anything - because they can conceal lots of flaws with hair.
That is a totally different type of showing than what I do. I strickly show breeding stock - that later are turned into pasture working cows/bulls. I also sell show steers to 4-H kids, at market price if purchased same time as when I am ready to ship them, or by the head if they want them weaned early & halter broke. I don't gouge the kids. It's good PR to have kids showing your stock.
Kids show against kids. Kids CAN show in open shows (adults) but there are plenty of junior shows for them - depending on your location.
Showing cattle is my cheapest advertising that I do. I also do a lot of attending or exhibiting at displays promoting our breed. Most shows I win enough to offset a good portion of the expense. And yes, show & sale expenses go against the yearly cost of keeping my cows.
 
Showing cattle is my cheapest advertising that I do.

Over here I wouldn't neccesarily say its the cheapest advertising I can do, but after word of mouth its by far the best form of advertsing if you just simply show what you breed and not breed for the showring.
 
Yes, that goes without saying (or guess I should have said) word of mouth is the absolute BEST advertising you can have. But, it really doesn't come cheap. It takes a lifetime commitment of doing things honest & fair.
When I say it's my cheapest form of advertising, I guess I should say I get the biggest bang for the bucks spent.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":1fxc3ib8 said:
Redfornow - with your figures, that comes out to $53.33/head/winter. That's more than a reasonable amount to increase the energy in their ration. A heifer in great condition at breeding, and turned out on grass, will stay in great condition on baleage the next winter. Keeping her in BCS of 6.5 for calving will increase WW easily by 50# and get bred back quickly, so that would pay for the $53 grain. The red 2-year old calved 2-1 and was in standing heat on 3-4. I'd say that was pretty good.
BTW, I have 18 replacement heifers. Cows don't get grain.

Your right!
Good costs... Mine are still out on pasture grazing stockpiled fescue..
But what do I know?
 
redfornow":aio2hx09 said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley":aio2hx09 said:
Redfornow - with your figures, that comes out to $53.33/head/winter. That's more than a reasonable amount to increase the energy in their ration. A heifer in great condition at breeding, and turned out on grass, will stay in great condition on baleage the next winter. Keeping her in BCS of 6.5 for calving will increase WW easily by 50# and get bred back quickly, so that would pay for the $53 grain. The red 2-year old calved 2-1 and was in standing heat on 3-4. I'd say that was pretty good.
BTW, I have 18 replacement heifers. Cows don't get grain.

Your right!
Good costs... Mine are still out on pasture grazing stockpiled fescue..
But what do I know?
That's wonderful for those that live in an area that you can do that. We don't have that luxury. We (hand) feed about 6 months of the year. I only wish we could stockpile & let them eat out.
 
Brandonm22":3hquzmx2 said:
It is just like Hereford (or any other) seedstock, if you have the money, the recips, and the grass you can rapidly flood the local market with show steers (or breeding bulls/reg heifers). The question then is: can you grow the market (ie draw new show steer buyers to the game) or can you steal the market from the people that already sell the steers (seedstock)? If you are selling anything but commodity beef, the marketing is generally harder than the production.

When a child wants to show cattle, where do they usually get the money? Do the majority of children work for minimum wage and save all summer or do their parents pay for the animal? The reason I ask, I would have an issue taking minimum wage money from a child. Do multipliers take children's money without a guilty conscience?
 
HerefordSire":biztsk7s said:
Brandonm22":biztsk7s said:
It is just like Hereford (or any other) seedstock, if you have the money, the recips, and the grass you can rapidly flood the local market with show steers (or breeding bulls/reg heifers). The question then is: can you grow the market (ie draw new show steer buyers to the game) or can you steal the market from the people that already sell the steers (seedstock)? If you are selling anything but commodity beef, the marketing is generally harder than the production.

When a child wants to show cattle, where do they usually get the money? Do the majority of children work for minimum wage and save all summer or do their parents pay for the animal? The reason I ask, I would have an issue taking minimum wage money from a child. Do multipliers take children's money without a guilty conscience?
Around here, the first year the parents typically pay for the calf. In subsequent years the kid pays for it out of the profits from the previous years. There are a few parents that will spend muliple k dollars for a steer every year for the kids, but those are the exceptions. The calves that we sell for the kids to show usually go for a little over market then when the kid shows it we donate some of the money back to the kids. If the kid doesn;t show it we donate the money to the fair fund and it gets spread around for various uses that benefit all of the kids.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":3q954t79 said:
The true "club calf" show steer market is a tough one. Yes, the steer jockeys are willing to pay BIG bucks for a top quality show steer. But these sellers have years of breeding that "type" of steer. You are talking a specific phenotype PLUS the "right" kind of HAIR. Hair is almost more important to them than anything - because they can conceal lots of flaws with hair.
That is a totally different type of showing than what I do. I strickly show breeding stock - that later are turned into pasture working cows/bulls. I also sell show steers to 4-H kids, at market price if purchased same time as when I am ready to ship them, or by the head if they want them weaned early & halter broke. I don't gouge the kids. It's good PR to have kids showing your stock.
Kids show against kids. Kids CAN show in open shows (adults) but there are plenty of junior shows for them - depending on your location.
Showing cattle is my cheapest advertising that I do. I also do a lot of attending or exhibiting at displays promoting our breed. Most shows I win enough to offset a good portion of the expense. And yes, show & sale expenses go against the yearly cost of keeping my cows.

Is hair quality heritable and nutritional, or just nutitional? The reason this got my attention is because Knersie mentioned hair quality several times in the past.
 
Hfs - you are just trying to argumentative. You know hair is not nutritional. It is very heritable tho.
And talking about children making minimum wages - get a life. As Dun said, most parents buy the first one & than they use the profit to buy next years. Also, when my daughter was in 4-H in Kansas, the banks "loaned" kids their money. If they returned after the fair with a ribbon, they didn't charge any interest. Kids signed the loan paper & everything (of course - so did Mom & Dad). I figure small town country banks probably still help the kids like this.
gberry - actually, my steers only get shell corn for about 1 month after weaning & during preconditioning. Just long enough to be ready for the feedlot.
My replacement heifers get the $53 worth of corn thru the winter. That's what he's opposed to.
He already said he sells his calves for $400, but didn't say how much his yearly cow cost was. Mine's $471

This was supposed to a fun thread.
 
HerefordSire":259rvba7 said:
Is hair quality heritable and nutritional, or just nutitional? The reason this got my attention is because Knersie mentioned hair quality several times in the past.

Since the club calf bulls mention "has good hair" so frequently I would think that it's at least somwhat heritable.
We have a heifer that one of the kids will show this year and the usual comment is that she "has good hair". Her sister from last year was the same way
 
Good hair is definitely heritable. That is one of the many things we look at when selecting a bull to use. For those of you that have not checked our website I will state it here. We are in the purebred business to supply beef bulls for ourselves and our customers (that are in the beef industry). All other aspects of raising purebred cattle are purely recreational.
When you live where we do (yesterday it was -47 with the wind chill) a good hair coat helps immensely with the winter feed bill.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":34sko5ai said:
Hfs - you are just trying to argumentative. You know hair is not nutritional. It is very heritable tho.
And talking about children making minimum wages - get a life. As Dun said, most parents buy the first one & than they use the profit to buy next years. Also, when my daughter was in 4-H in Kansas, the banks "loaned" kids their money. If they returned after the fair with a ribbon, they didn't charge any interest. Kids signed the loan paper & everything (of course - so did Mom & Dad). I figure small town country banks probably still help the kids like this.
gberry - actually, my steers only get shell corn for about 1 month after weaning & during preconditioning. Just long enough to be ready for the feedlot.
My replacement heifers get the $53 worth of corn thru the winter. That's what he's opposed to.
He already said he sells his calves for $400, but didn't say how much his yearly cow cost was. Mine's $471

This was supposed to a fun thread.

Interesting Jeanne - Simme Valley. I was under the impression that not charging interest for a loan was illegal. Also, goes to show you how much I know about hair. During a drought a couple years ago, one late winter for a short time, I was feeding chicken litter mixed with rice bran and corn and the cattle's hair quality changed rapidly making me think it was nutrional.
 
HerefordSire":3rz7m12b said:
Interesting Jeanne - Simme Valley. I was under the impression that not charging interest for a loan was illegal. Also, goes to show you how much I know about hair. During a drought a couple years ago, one late winter for a short time, I was feeding chicken litter mixed with rice bran and corn and the cattle's hair quality changed rapidly making me think it was nutrional.[/i]

You better check with your county agent or U. of Arkansas Animal Science department; but I was under the impression that feeding cows chicken litter was now illegal. I could be wrong but I think we got rid of that for fear of mad cow diseases about 5 years ago.

I definitely could be wrong on this and would appreciate clarification either way.
 
Brandonm22...it would surprise me because I researched all over the internet several years ago and could barely find anything. About the only thing I located was the milking ability could be reduced if fed for longer than short term.
 
HerefordSire":dn436icb said:
Brandonm22...it would surprise me because I researched all over the internet several years ago and could barely find anything. About the only thing I located was the milking ability could be reduced if fed for longer than short term.

Heck several years ago everybody did it and the Extension service recommended it. It works great. I do think that our Governmental Masters told us to stop it, though. I think that was about the time we had to sign affidavits at the stockyard that none of our load had ever been fed animal byproducts. My name was on more loads of cattle that I didn't for sure what they ate than I want to think about. I can drop a line to Dr Linda Kriese-Anderson and see what she says.
 
it was brought up to ban feeding of chiken litter but as the news of the BSE went away so did the banning talk. It is fed on a few farms i know of but they keep quiet about it because of what the public thinks. i don't know of any ban on it in the US.
 

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