You Decide...Opinions Please

[East Caney]

backhoeboogie,

I've only been running cows since 2005. Before that, I was around them but didn't pay much attention. I didn't really start studying the phenotype of cattle until 2007. I've worked hard to learn to properly analyze cattle. I will admit, however, that I still sometimes miss things. Concerning hocks, I only look to see if they're sickle-hocked, too straight, cow-hocked, or have knots at the joint. Is there something else that you're looking at? I'm just looking for any additional learning opportunity.

EC

 

[DOC HARRIS]

East Caney-

I think that I should clarify a couple of statements in my post. I think that if you will go back and read my post of 12:45 pm today, I did not say that #2 would not produce the best calf! I said "- - #2 is the best looking (phenotype), but probably not the best performing or the most profitable - at year's end". You must take everything into account when figuring PROFIT, and cow size certainly DICTATES the Profit line! Smaller cows are more profitable - OVERALL - everything taken into consideration. Not just whether cow A has a calf that is better than Cow B's calf!

Another point that I should have emphasized and explained more thoroughly is FUNCTIONAL TRAITS. Functional Traits include longevity and how they function in the herd over time. Also skeletal structure, sound feet and legs (and hocks!), shoulder, spine, strength of top line for carrying calves year after year, body capacity, disposition, femininity, muscle expression (as is inherited by progeny for Terminal traits in the feedlot), ribeye size, marbling, and degree of fatness. These "Functional Traits" ALL combine to produce an animal which, when used as a brood cow, will provide PROFIT at the end of the year.

Just because a cow's calf will "push the scales down" doesn't mean that that particular cow will provide a PROFIT when all factors are taken into consideration. An Arkansas Extension study revealed that 1100# cows weaned 47% of their body weight (517 lbs), while 1400# cows weaned only 40% (563 lbs). Smaller cows make +/- $75.00 more per cow per year!

As producer's running a BU$INE$$ by using "Breeding Cows" as tools, PROFIT is the operative word! You have to feed those "tools"! BIG one's eat more than LITTLE one's do.

DOC HARRIS

 

[backhoeboogie]

I'm the first to admit that I don't have the eye for cattle. My grandaddy was an expert at it in every way which makes me forever humbled. I'd prefer that Doc, or CB or someone else with better expertise can answer your hock question. Then again, as you can tell, there are a lot of us on this board who disagree often. They may tell you I'm out of my mind. But I like the hocks on #2 best.

 

[jenran]

What interest's me is if anyone else would be concerned with their deep set tailheads ? I have heard from ranchers who had cows like that and had a lot of problems with bulls wrecking themselves .. I have no idea if there is any credability to this .. but I am curious. Also wondering if it would them affect the conception rate of these type of females ? .. open cows and wrecked bulls can eat a profit in a hurry. Maybe nothing to support these ideas .. just wanted your opinions.

Jen

 

[KNERSIE]

Nothing wrong with the tailset/tailheads of any of these.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm the first to admit that I don't have the eye for cattle. My grandaddy was an expert at it in every way which makes me forever humbled. I'd prefer that Doc, or CB or someone else with better expertise can answer your hock question. Then again, as you can tell, there are a lot of us on this board who disagree often. They may tell you I'm out of my mind. But I like the hocks on #2 best.

Funny #2 was the one I liked the least but we are looking at cows to operate in to very different enviroments. You operate in an arid climate compared to a rain forest that I am in.
Now I thought she was too narrow as well as she looked very fine boned which worried me. Now operating in a wet slippery red clay enviroment with the cows having to climb a steep creek bank to get from one pasture to the next. Very common here to have a cow limping from slipping down. Now we are all judging from a picture versus the real world makes a huge difference as well.

 

[East Caney]

Doc,

I admit that I read your post and used my own interpretation of what you meant instead of what you said. I'll say again, I like small cows that milk adequately to raise a good calf. I like moderate cows so much that I fear having a difficult time marketing. Though it is so often preached otherwise, it seems most people are still in love with bigger cattle...especially when there is a side-by-side comparison of two animals of good phenotypic quality, one just being larger than the other.

EC

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I would place them 2 - 3 - 1 -4
IMO 2 is a definite top & 4 is a definite bottom.

 

[mobeefman]

I like #4 nice and solid all the way through... would be a good calf raiser

 

[alacattleman]

Well I am going with #4 as she appears to be a more moderate frame cow. I don't want those 1500 pound cows I want the 1000 pound cow. She eats less groceries and handles the heat better and will raise me just as good a calf as those big cows . IMO the industry has gotten the cow too big over the last several years .

you can see that big a difference in #4 than the others??? like number 2 plus her udder is the type i would want replacements out of

 

[goddy]

I wrote my pick down on paper before I read the comments and then looked at them again - my pick first was #3 and I would stay with it on closer inspection. At 10 years old she looks great for a good few years yet . Deep bodied , nicely set shoulder - a real good honest looking cow.
I saw all the comments about #2 and she is an eye catcher but couldn't see how she's better than 3. Can someone tell me what the showy neck extension adds to a cow other than a showy look ?
I think anyone would be happy to have any of those cows standing in their front paddock.
Goddy

 

[KNERSIE]

Can someone tell me what the showy neck extension adds to a cow other than a showy look ?

Femininity like that is an indication of endocrine balance and maternal quality. My only gripe against no 3 is that her neck is a little coarse for my liking especially not knowing anything about her production record. If her production record is imaculate the neck wouldn't bother me at all.

3 of the 4 cows are really of very good quality, one is just average at best.