"You can RUN - but you CAN'T hide!"

[Brandonm2]

Doc I sometimes think that the cause is ''breed blind'' instead of ''barn blind'' :shock: Look at the advances in swine genetics in the last 20 years compared to beef! Hog producers have no loyalty to ''breeds'' there loyalty is to the genetics that will improve there bottom line.

A high percentage of hogs (and genetics) is owned by a few large corporate "farmers". They're mostly raised in barns, managed environments. Most cows are owned by smaller, individual ranchers, producing in a variety of enviroments. To compare hogs to cattle is like comparing apples and oranges.

Frankie tell me how much genetic material you use other than Angus. If your nieghbor had the best bull that ever walked the face of the earth and was a crossbred ,you would not use him in your breeding program Most breeders are interested in promoting breeds not beef production.

I am not defending straightbreeding Angus in a commercial environment; BUT there is something wrong with an operation that would even consider abandoning their plan because the neighbor's crossbred bull looked good. If the neighbor's bull does not fit the plan that I have for my herd, I don't give a rip how good he is, I am not ever going to use him. The biggest problem with most crossbred cattle operations is that there was no plan. The guy either don't know what the breed of their next bull is going to be OR they will get another like this one because he seemed to do good. I personally don't like composite bulls; but IF you use them they need to be part of some type of longterm breeding strategy not just another new flavor to try.

 

[Frankie]

Frankie - I think that you are a little confused if you think that the improvements made in hogs and poultry genetics by developing composites is NOT comparable to the same TYPE of cross-breeding programs in beef cattle! Apples and Oranges are different species. Composite breeding will add $75.00 - $100.00 per head to a well-planned and optimally operated Beef Cattle program!

You should do some "open-minded" research, Frankie! . . .With all due respect.

DOC HARRIS

I'm not confused, DOC. Maybe you are. Comparing raising beef and pork is a nonstarter. Do you think the pork people include a breed that is known to be tough in the genetic make up of their hogs? Yet there are probably hundreds of southern cattlemen who will swear they need Brahman influence in their herd because of the environment.

When you're raising hogs on concrete in climate controlled conditions, you don't need to worry much about the environment. You can use about any genetics you want that will produce your target. AND you can change those genetics in just a few months, where cattle take years.

Maybe you should acknowledge where this article originated? Some people might not know that Steve Suther works for the American Angus Association.

 

[backhoeboogie]

there are probably hundreds of southern cattlemen who will swear they need Brahman influence in their herd because of the environment.

Steve Suther works for the American Angus Association.

I am one of the ones who wants Bos Indicus influence. I have tried straight angus. I still have two that are okay if they calve in the fall. I hope to get steers out of them each year for marketing because I don't intend on building a herd with them. They are not bad cows and produce decent calves out of the brangus bull.

No one ever said all angus people are idiots. If Steve Suther has something good to say, we can listen, no matter who he works for. If I were in a milder climate I would probably run more angus than I do. I'd probably cross for some baldies too.

We all produce beef. We all have pastures, and fencing and breeding programs. If someone has some good advice, it can work for many breeds, no matter who they work for.

 

[capt]

Thank you to both Doc Harris and Frankie for finally getting around to the point I was trying to make but did not do a very good job of. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE between BREEDING GENETICS TO EFFECT CHANGE and RAISING beef cattle or hogs for that matter. Most people are content to just raise cattle, or even believe that they are 'breeding' cattle when truly without knowing their product, their environment, sticking to a well planned goal, measuring, evaluating, culling, replacing and analyzing their operation, they are inevitably just raising cattle. I sincerely hope that this becomes clear to those out there on this board and can provide some meaningful, thoughtful insight as to how this impacts the beef industry and/or if it eventually changes the face of the industry, or if those types of operations just fade away.
capt