you can read a whole lot of BS on this board.

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some time ago i spoke to macon and we were discussing breeds of cattle and tests performed on these different breeds.

macon made the statement to me that any test performed on any breed would tend to be biased towards the breed that was having the testing done as the one that was being paid to do the testing would not want to cut off the hand that feeds them. its a shame people cant be happy with the truth but want distorted facts

if i were looking for a paticular breed to get into i would do the following i would visit farms or ranches of the breed i was interested in and look at calves as they hit the ground and watch them grow

i would watch the feeding practices of the breeder and see if he had to supplment feed every day to make his cattle look like they do.

i would visit more than one breeder to see if he was acheiving the same results in like circumstances and i would not visit pals of each other who have the same breed as birds of a feather tend to flock together. for the record there are a lot of breeders that will sell you a pig in a poke and laugh all the way to the bank to their selves and their freinds

the last place i would visit would be a fair or livestock show to form an opinion of any breed as the animals you will see their are dolled up like someone going out to a party. they dye the hair of the animal and shine it up and they cut the hair and fluff it up in the voided spots.

i am of the opinion that all breeds should be shown in their natural form. this is my feeling only. when i have had the opportunity to speak to my son or others about looking for a wife or husband i would tell them to look at the mother of the one they were dating in most cases you will see what your future wife will look like a few years latter. also dont look for the best looking girl as some one will allways be trying to take her from you or conquer her i will take a woman with principles and a good heart any day over a beauty queen

so show me that cow out in the feild with her calf or the bull and his calves

and concerning buying that pig in a poke there is now dna testing available by stormont labs and others so you can be sure that the animal you are buying is from a certain dam or sire dont shell out your hard earned bucks or borrowed money without verifying genetics and for sure get any thing in writing as a lot of breeders memories are as short as their private parts.

think of it like this i heard a guy say one time he never went out with an ugly woman but he had woke up next to a lot of them! their painted faces were smeared the next morning and their wigs had been removed. if i wanted to see the truth about a certain breed or animal i would do the following.

say the breeder you are visiting has a ten year old cow ask where the animals that she has produced are if they are close enough go look at them i would for sure want to call the people that had purchased animals from any breeder to see if things were like the breeder was portrying them to be

look on the breeds web site for the animals that were produced from a certain dam or sire. a good breed association will have these records available online for one to view

my dad was an alcoholic he said beleive nothing you hear and only half what you see its a shame that most breeders or producers jump on a breeds band wagon beacause of what they have been told rather than what they have seen and then when they find they have been dooped they want to recover their losses by passing on their bad decissions on to someone else. its a pretty vicious cycle.

HERE IS SOME FOOD FOR YOUR SOUL THAT WILL HELP YOU MAKE IT THROUGH LIFE AND INTO ETERNITY!

remember GOD CREATED eve for adam and not steve for adam and by the same thinking he did not create woman for woman. woman was created for man.

and if we all lived by GODS priciples one could take a cattleman at his word we could even have faith in a politician and take him or her at their word.

:help: go out and help someone make it a better day and through life and into eternal life.
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Cattle Rack Rancher

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Just because an animal thrives under someone else's management, doesn't mean that it will thrive under your own. Different climates, different pasture types and different markets will dictate what kind of cattle a person aims to grow. I, personally like, black polled animals or black baldies with good thick haircoats and moderate size (1100-1200 lbs for cows). Black, because that's what I get the best price for at the market. Good hair coats to get us through our nasty winters. Moderate size for feed efficiency. My neighbor runs Simmental/Charolais crosses. Many of his cows would be 2000+ lbs and he weans most of his calves at close to 700 lbs. His idea is more calf=more money. Big cows have enough bulk to stay warm in winter. He also feeds twice as much as me and gets less $/lb than I do. Which of us is right? Depends on who you talk to. Obviously, if each of us didn't think he was right, he would change his ways.
 

la4angus

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CRR, In my opinion I think a cow should wean a calf of approximate 50% of her body NOT approximately 35% of her body wt. As you stated he feeds about twice as much as you do. IMO it don't take a Philadelphia Lawyer to figure out that feed cost money. These same 2000 lb cows will also eat a bunch more grass during the grazing season as the 1200 lb. cows.
IMHO money is profit!!!!!! :eek: :eek:
 

BEEEEF

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Glad I ran across this web site and yawl cattlemen and cattlewomen.
I had a PH cow back in the mid 80's and 90's who consistantly weaned a 205 day calf at 650 to 700 pounds or 65 to 70 % of body weight. I strive for 60% and that is hard to do in an all forage system, no hay only mineral. When in the pasture everybody would pick her calf and want the dam until they saw her and then most everybody said she was to small except Paul Bennett. I like a 1150-1200 pound cow but I cannot make my angus , gelbvieh or balancer cattle equal what that old PH cow did until I took a seminar from Dr. Dick Diven and he explained about the equanox and why cattle in the north and south differ, made sense I tried it and it worked. I am going back more and more to true red and black bally's not because I don't like those other breeds. In my situation it makes me dollars and I had tried some popular breeds that looked good that cost me money because I didn't go to the feed store and buy a bucket or creep feeder. Oh, I use goats for chemical since late 70's and sell for BBQ too.
Just a conservative old eccentric cattleman who's favorite has always been green grass and the cattle color didn't really matter as long as they made money and weaned one every 365 days and not every cow in any breed in any enviroment will do that so keep what does red or black maybe even a grey or white if you don't have to pull a calf and she beeds back and weans 50 to 60% of her body weight. If you do not like her color and she does that plesae cull her my way, age not a factor young or old. Better check my whole beef brisket it is sure smelling good too!!!
"ITS WHAT I HAVE FOR DINNER"
BEEEEF
 

Campground Cattle

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la4angus":20kx7p2b said:
CRR, In my opinion I think a cow should wean a calf of approximate 50% of her body NOT approximately 35% of her body wt. As you stated he feeds about twice as much as you do. IMO it don't take a Philadelphia Lawyer to figure out that feed cost money. These same 2000 lb cows will also eat a bunch more grass during the grazing season as the 1200 lb. cows.
IMHO money is profit!!!!!! :eek: :eek:

Totally agree a cow had better be able to stay fat and raise a calf at 45 to 50% body weight on Grass. I am not going to feed out of a sack, no profit in it.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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la4angus wrote:
CRR, In my opinion I think a cow should wean a calf of approximate 50% of her body NOT approximately 35% of her body wt. As you stated he feeds about twice as much as you do. IMO it don't take a Philadelphia Lawyer to figure out that feed cost money. These same 2000 lb cows will also eat a bunch more grass during the grazing season as the 1200 lb. cows.
IMHO money is profit!!!!!!


Totally agree a cow had better be able to stay fat and raise a calf at 45 to 50% body weight on Grass. I am not going to feed out of a sack, no profit in it.

As I said there are alot of guys up here who would beg to differ. Continental cattle up here almost have to be bigger and have that extra bulk to survive the cold winter because they are not as hairy as the british breeds. I used to spend my summers on the Bar 5 Simmental ranch back in the early eighties. Some of those cattle were huge and alot of guys around here haven't changed their genetics much since then. The other thing I like about smaller cattle is they are easier to handle if you have problems. My brother was helping his neighbor do chores a couple years back and had one of these big, new mamas come after him. That big of an animal trying to come through the fence at you is quite a bit scarier than a little 1200 lb cow. She made it half way over a six foot steel gate. My brother has mostly smaller frame cows, too and that incident affirmed to him that he was growing the right kind of cattle. I do have to say, though, that when you see those big, thick Simmi/Char calves in the fall, it makes what you're producing look a little weak in comparison.
 

la4angus

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Cattle Rack Rancher":2jq8qmvf said:
la4angus wrote:
CRR, In my opinion I think a cow should wean a calf of approximate 50% of her body NOT approximately 35% of her body wt. As you stated he feeds about twice as much as you do. IMO it don't take a Philadelphia Lawyer to figure out that feed cost money. These same 2000 lb cows will also eat a bunch more grass during the grazing season as the 1200 lb. cows.
IMHO money is profit!!!!!!


Totally agree a cow had better be able to stay fat and raise a calf at 45 to 50% body weight on Grass. I am not going to feed out of a sack, no profit in it.

As I said there are alot of guys up here who would beg to differ.
Continental cattle up here almost have to be bigger and have that extra bulk to survive the cold winter because they are not as hairy as the british breeds. I used to spend my summers on the Bar 5 Simmental ranch back in the early eighties. Some of those cattle were huge and alot of guys around here haven't changed their genetics much since then. The other thing I like about smaller cattle is they are easier to handle if you have problems. My brother was helping his neighbor do chores a couple years back and had one of these big, new mamas come after him. That big of an animal trying to come through the fence at you is quite a bit scarier than a little 1200 lb cow. She made it half way over a six foot steel gate. My brother has mostly smaller frame cows, too and that incident affirmed to him that he was growing the right kind of cattle. I do have to say, though, that when you see those big, thick Simmi/Char calves in the fall, it makes what you're producing look a little weak in comparison.
There are Angus bulls out there whose calves will perform as well or better than the continentals. Probaly Herefords Bulls that will out perform them also.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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There are Angus bulls out there whose calves will perform as well or better than the continentals. Probaly Herefords Bulls that will out perform them also.

I totally agree. I just think it would be tough for a little 1200 lb cow to raise a calf to 700 lbs, maintain herself well enough to get bred and keep from losing that calf over our cold winters. My cattle winter in the bush. That thick hair coat, and that black color help them a bit with the cold but they have to be in really good shape going into the winter. All the calves are born in April-May and all get weaned at the end of November. So they can't get dragged down too much during the summer. I had one little cow that raised a 540 lb calf. At the end of the summer she was 880 lbs. But she was pretty thin and way too crazy to stay on my farm.
 

frenchie

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Cattle Rack

Seems what you are doing is working well for you.I like those 1200 lb cows as well. ;-)
 

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