Wye Breed that way ?

[Stocker Steve]

Saw some "cow maker" BA bulls that go back to Wye breeding. The $W were about + $10 and $EN were about + $25. :nod: Heifers should be low input, but how would the steers stack up to you?

 

[KNERSIE]

They should be OK. I'd much rather use that than most modern BA genetics

 

[Stocker Steve]

They should be OK. I'd much rather use that than most modern BA genetics

Moderns have negative $EN -- so you are estimating an average annual feed cost difference of 40 to 70 U$S to get the higher weaning weight. :?

I am considering old timey wf cows with a terminal Simi or Limi sire. How much of a change in fertility and longevity would you expect with old time Wye x herf breeding vs. modern straight bred?

 

[cow pollinater]

EPD's are just averages that come from a lot of different operations. If for example, My neighbor used a bull with a 60 WW and creep fed everything and I used the same bull and expected them to do it on just grass, our results would be very different. What you will see when you use low input genetics in a low input management system is that you'll get the best out of those calves while the higher growth stuff won't reach it's potential. I've seen calves from low input cattle outgrow or at least match the higher growth EPD calves when they're put in tough conditions and the cows breed back better because they don't NEED help.

 

[WalnutCrest]

EPD's are just averages that come from a lot of different operations. If for example, My neighbor used a bull with a 60 WW and creep fed everything and I used the same bull and expected them to do it on just grass, our results would be very different. What you will see when you use low input genetics in a low input management system is that you'll get the best out of those calves while the higher growth stuff won't reach it's potential. I've seen calves from low input cattle outgrow or at least match the higher growth EPD calves when they're put in tough conditions and the cows breed back better because they don't NEED help.

+1

Great post.

 

[Stocker Steve]

What you will see when you use low input genetics in a low input management system is that you'll get the best out of those calves while the higher growth stuff won't reach it's potential. I've seen calves from low input cattle outgrow or at least match the higher growth EPD calves when they're put in tough conditions and the cows breed back better because they don't NEED help.

OK.
So where is this taking us financially.
If high growth genetics are not effective with low input operations, and high input operations average $50 more feed to wean 40 pounds more calf at potentially a lower conception rate - - who gains from high growth genetics?

 

[WalnutCrest]

Someone using them as a terminal sire on cows of a different breed?

 

[Son of Butch]

What you will see when you use low input genetics in a low input management system is that you'll get the best out of those calves while the higher growth stuff won't reach it's potential. I've seen calves from low input cattle outgrow or at least match the higher growth EPD calves when they're put in tough conditions and the cows breed back better because they don't NEED help.

OK.
So where is this taking us financially.
If high growth genetics are not effective with low input operations, and high input operations average $50 more feed to wean 40 pounds more calf at potentially a lower conception rate - - who gains from high growth genetics?

Feed Lots, they are set up for higher inputs to maximize highest growth potential.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Feed Lots, they are set up for higher inputs to maximize highest growth potential.

This was my thought also, but I think a more general answer could be the guy who retain ownership of growthy calves.

I had an experiment were I fall grazed some straight bred BA weaned calves and some Wulf sired Limi flex weaned calves. The ADGs were not even close.

So would the "composite" answer be the guy who retains growthy terminal cross calves? :cowboy:

 

[Stocker Steve]

Big black simi angus bulls are trendy here. There are a couple guys who retain and feed their calves, so this should be profitable for them. There are a lot of guys who sell off the cow, and they may break even. But, there are a few guys who over graze pastures, sell off the cow, and have poor bred back. Probably a loser for them.

 

[pdfangus]

I am using Wye Genetics ....

I just weaned a nice heifer by Faxton of Wye and she will be the first heifer I have registered in years...

I have two cows examined safe to Alap of Wye...

I have four cows and have ordered 20 units of Semen from Claymont of Wye who was the leadoff bull in their sale this year...He won't be collected until mid to late summer...

Might use some of this semen on my neighbors commercial heifers.

 

[KNERSIE]

EPD's are just averages that come from a lot of different operations. If for example, My neighbor used a bull with a 60 WW and creep fed everything and I used the same bull and expected them to do it on just grass, our results would be very different. What you will see when you use low input genetics in a low input management system is that you'll get the best out of those calves while the higher growth stuff won't reach it's potential. I've seen calves from low input cattle outgrow or at least match the higher growth EPD calves when they're put in tough conditions and the cows breed back better because they don't NEED help.

Exactly! Well said

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

I am using Wye Genetics ....

I just weaned a nice heifer by Faxton of Wye and she will be the first heifer I have registered in years...

I have two cows examined safe to Alap of Wye...

I have four cows and have ordered 20 units of Semen from Claymont of Wye who was the leadoff bull in their sale this year...He won't be collected until mid to late summer...

Might use some of this semen on my neighbors commercial heifers.

Jim, I was there at the sale this year and Claymont is one big boy. We ended up with the lot 31 bull that sold right after him and are excited to have him. Steve, my goal has been to over time perfect my cow herd and some day down the road, start using a terminal bull on half the herd each year and use the other half to make replacements and sell the occasional bull. I don't really look at any EPD's as very useful in making finctional females but it does seem that the EN$ on my herd grows by the year. Time will tell . . .

 

[pdfangus]

wye had great cattle back in the 70's and they still have great cattle....

the rest of the breed began the pursuit of epd's in the late 70's and wye kept doing what they were doing...

I confess to chasing epds for a while but they were taking me the wrong way....I want to go back to good functional cattle...

I stopped by there a few years ago and saw good functional cattle bred to perform on grass.