Wow it just gets better and better

[Keren]

Ah, lost another doe. Something completely different, I think a bad case of preg tox, with a twist. Found her weak unable to stand so brought her in, put her on caesarian watch (sit there waiting with the knife till she dies then to the emergency caesar.

Anyway.

Aboout 10 o clock last night she died, I was there with the knives and towels, she was lying with her left side up. Cut into her - now if any of you have seen/done a caesar you'll know that the shear size of the pregnant uterus shoves all the guts and everything up the front of the animal, it almost all fits up under the ribs. So normally when you cut just in front of the hip you get to the uterus straight away.

So I opened her ... no uterus sitting there. Lots of guts. I dug around a bit ... no uterus. By this stage I'm thinking was it actually pregnant, I grab its back leg yes it has an udder. Bit more digging, I feel the curl of a uterine horn. Pull it out ... its a non pregnant uterine horn.

Looked again, yes she has an udder. Well, maybe she only has one kid and its in the other horn, so dig round to the other side, yes, there's a kid there. Pulled it out, gave it to the helper to towel and swing. I thought, hmm I'll just check to make sure there's not a second kid in that horn, well there was. Gave that one to the helper, and I'll be dammmed, went in a third time and there was another one.

Now, not sure if having triplets in the one horn was what made her crook, I dont know. I'm not sure how common an occurence this is, but I wouldnt think it would be normal??

Anyway, they were three doe kids but they didnt live. They came out kicking really strong with good hearts, but their lungs just didnt get there. They tried to breathe but didnt quite get there and after about half an hour (with us rubbing and stimulating the whole time) they gave up.

 

[fourstates]

Keren, have you ever used Dopram on distressed newborns? It stimulates breathing. So sorry for this bad luck. When it rains, it pours.

 

[hillsdown]

Keren, I have come to know what a phenomenal health care ,animal husbandry person you are through all of your helpful posts since I have started reading the board. If you can't save an animal it is doubtful that any vet could either unless they had some new magic medicine.

Hang in there as it will get better, this whole month has been a real &*(&$%$ %^^%& show for us but finally there is light at the end of the tunnel.

How is your new fancy gal doing ?

 

[fourstates]

No disrespect intended. Very effective Rx medication and may or may not be available where Keren lives. It stimulates the brain to start and maintain respirations.

 

[milkmaid]

fourstates -- I can't imagine any offense was taken. It was a good question, and if Keren hasn't heard of it before the new info may save other kids in the future. I had the same thought about Dopram you did when reading about the kids that wouldn't breathe, you just asked first.

 

[Keren]

lol, TN, I sometimes think that sheep wake up in the morning and think 'Huh, I think its a nice day, I might just die today'.

Goats ... in my experience are not so bad and normally they hang on pretty well. You do have to watch them though if they are in pain, they cant handle pain and sometimes die from the stress of it.

Fourstates, no offense taken at all. I havent heard of Dopram. We do have a few doses of steroids which we use in cases like this to mature the lungs before the caesar, but because of the price and also the difficulty we have obtaining it, we keep it for the fullblood does.

In this case, the doe was 2 weeks off her due date and normally they would survive at this stage, but I think because the three were crammed up in one side of the uterus they just werent as developed as they should have been. The lungs couldnt stay inflated.

Hills, she's doing great. When I have a spare moment I will take some more pictures. She has put on stacks of weight and she's now at the stage I am ready to sync and breed her. Just waiting on the semen guy to email the catalogue, then I get to make a long drive down to melbourne to pick it up.

Oh it has been he11 lately. This is my list for the last two months or so:

2 pulpy kidney deaths, one pregnant with twins (buck and doe)
2 urinary calculi deaths, both show bucks
1 cow dead, got cast and didnt find her for a few days
3 does dead a few days post kidding, due to constipation
1 doe dead due to constipation, took twin doe kids with her
1 doe dead due to Pasturella pneumonia
13 kids born weak and died within two to three days due to Pasturella scours
2 does aborted due to mechanical reasons - suspect were beaten at the feeder - both cases had twin does
1 doe dead from having her neck broken at the hay bale rack
1 doe and three doe kids dead (the one I mentioned above) but I wrote wrong - I meant to say grass tetany/milk fever rather than preg tox
I wether dead from unknown causes - possibly severe copper deficiency?

This is just ridiculous. We'd had two deaths over the past two and a half years, not counting newborn or stillborn kids. Hopefully things will improve as the does will start kidding any day now.

Actually there is a bit of silver lining, we had a wether come down with urinary calculi 3 weeks ago. Normally in these cases we exteriorise the penis and cut off the urethral process (a little thin wiggly bit on the end) which is where the stones usually are, and they are all right. Anyway long story but for some reason or another, we couldnt exteriorise this little guys penis. Not knowing what to do, and figuring he'd die anyway, we cut through the skin to his penis behind the prepuce. We cut a significant hole in the penis and stitched it up so that the hole was sort of sticking out of the skin a bit, so that when he peed, it would come out before the prepuce. Didnt think it would be very successful, but he is still alive, running and jumping and peeing like a champion!

 

[b&langusfarms]

Keren,
I have a question fot you. I lost a little tiny boar doe a couple of days ago. I bought her with a doe twin and her mom. She was much smaller than her twin. After 2 or 3 weeks she developed pretty bad diarhea and no matter what I did lost 1.5 lbs. (tried electrolytes, corid, kopectate) She never went off feed and would even suck the eloctrolytes from my drench gun like a bottle. She still would got out to the pasture with the otherrs she was just slower. When giving her the eletro. the other morning she began breathing funny which I thought I noticed the day before and the started the white frothy (I am a resp therapist & assumed it was pulmonary edemia) She then began to choke and die no matter my efforts. I am just wondering what I should have done differently...

 

[Keren]

I PMed you ...

 

[Roadapple]

Ah, lost another doe. Something completely different, I think a bad case of preg tox, with a twist. Found her weak unable to stand so brought her in, put her on caesarian watch (sit there waiting with the knife till she dies then to the emergency caesar.

Anyway.

Aboout 10 o clock last night she died, I was there with the knives and towels, she was lying with her left side up. Cut into her - now if any of you have seen/done a caesar you'll know that the shear size of the pregnant uterus shoves all the guts and everything up the front of the animal, it almost all fits up under the ribs. So normally when you cut just in front of the hip you get to the uterus straight away.

So I opened her ... no uterus sitting there. Lots of guts. I dug around a bit ... no uterus. By this stage I'm thinking was it actually pregnant, I grab its back leg yes it has an udder. Bit more digging, I feel the curl of a uterine horn. Pull it out ... its a non pregnant uterine horn.

Looked again, yes she has an udder. Well, maybe she only has one kid and its in the other horn, so dig round to the other side, yes, there's a kid there. Pulled it out, gave it to the helper to towel and swing. I thought, hmm I'll just check to make sure there's not a second kid in that horn, well there was. Gave that one to the helper, and I'll be dammmed, went in a third time and there was another one.

Now, not sure if having triplets in the one horn was what made her crook, I dont know. I'm not sure how common an occurence this is, but I wouldnt think it would be normal??

Anyway, they were three doe kids but they didnt live. They came out kicking really strong with good hearts, but their lungs just didnt get there. They tried to breathe but didnt quite get there and after about half an hour (with us rubbing and stimulating the whole time) they gave up.

I assume you were to swing the kids to get the fluid out of their lungs,but I'm trying to find an article that states not to do that as you are then pushing all internal organs against the lungs causing it harder for them to breath. Is it possible thats what happened?

 

[dun]

Since the lungs are the last thing to get ready when kidding/calving takes place (thus the shot of Dex to induce labor) any of those emergency C-sections that re more then a a few days to a week early seem to rarely work out.

 

[GRTiger85]

As one of my animal science professors said...."sheep are born looking for a place to die, goats have already found one"

 

[Keren]

Roadapple, I have never heard that ... and I guess old habits die hard. I think the main thing was these kids were just a bit too early.

No offense intended, but swinging kids/lambs and hanging calves over a rail/barrel has always worked well for us. If you ever watch a vet do a C-section on a bitch or queen, you will see that the vet nurses take the puppies/kittens in a towel and swing them around as well as rubbing them.

I'd be interested to see an article though, if you find one.

Dun, I've had a few lambs survive at 1 wk before due date, no kids though. In my experience it is usually successful if the doe/ewe/cow has gone into labour naturally (hence the young are ready) but rarely successful if the labour has been induced.

Had another baby born alive and well and no problems yesterday, but also another doe died.