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Would you buy a bull from a breeder who......

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gertman

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retains a certain percentage semen interest? In a lot of bull sale catalogs I notice breeders are selling full possession, but retaining a semen interest. Would you stay away from a deal like this, just like to know how everyone feels about the subject.
 

TheBullLady

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Depends... on what type of arrangements are made. I wouldn't buy a bull and then give the seller the right to collect the bull, which is something I see a lot of. If the bull has been collected prior to the sale, and the seller wants to retain semen that has already been collected, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I have the same problem when a breeder offers a female for sale and wants to retain a flush. I think that can be a volatile situation.
 

KNERSIE

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If its specified that the semen interest retained is just for own use it wouldn't bother me at all, but I don't want the breeder to sell semen from the bull I bought for his own pocket.

I've retained a semen interest from some of the bulls I've sold although I've never used that right. The reason being a few years ago I sold a bull (which I should have kept) and didn't retain a semen right, that bull is now in the top 10% of all traits in the country and he is being used in a herd where he doesn't come to his right and i don't trust his new owner's health program enough to buy him back.
 

novatech

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gertman":14ki3r4j said:
retains a certain percentage semen interest? In a lot of bull sale catalogs I notice breeders are selling full possession, but retaining a semen interest. Would you stay away from a deal like this, just like to know how everyone feels about the subject.
Seems to be a fairly common practice with the big name breeders. They usually divide the expenses for collection at the same percentage.
Large breeders cannot afford to retain every bull to see how they turn out. They certainly cannot afford to show all of them. It makes good sense to sell higher end bulls off the ranch in order to gain a good reputation.
There are many buyers out there that will go along with this because of the politics involved in the show business. With some breeds the brand on their butt will go a long way into making a champion.
There are breeders that just want to retain some of the genetics they worked for years to produce yet still need to generate the cash flow to stay in business.
Personally I retain some breeding rights on any bull I sell. May be straws or may be taking some cows to the bull. At present I am using a bull I sold as a clean up bull. The buyer has no use for him at this time so it worked out for both of us. In a few months he will be putting him on some heifers.
 

Angus Cowman

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gertman":t5mvk9es said:
retains a certain percentage semen interest? In a lot of bull sale catalogs I notice breeders are selling full possession, but retaining a semen interest. Would you stay away from a deal like this, just like to know how everyone feels about the subject.
Why wouldn't you do it?

here is why I think it is ok
1 they pay for all collection cost you get 1/2 the semen or 1/2 of the money

2 they have better resources for getting your bulls name into the public which can make his semen more valuable if they decide to collect any

3 if they decide to draw semen the bull must be on the top end and then you can retain semen to sell or for future use
JMO
 

Brandonm22

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I would be very hesitant to buy a bull with any kind of interest being retained by the owner. Life is too short to deal with partners or possible litigation. I want full interest and full possession or I won't buy. If somebody wants to retain rights just don't do business with them and you send them a letter telling them why you bought from somebody else.
 

bigbull338

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yes i would buy a bull like that.because if done right your entitled to half the seman sales.but it would make me nervious having the bull on my place.but ill never be big enough or rich enough todo that.
 

backhoeboogie

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No.

If they run short on semen, they may decide to call. If they don't they won't.

Anything I buy is mine with no strings. Easier that way.
 

S&S Farms

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I have both purchased bull with some semen interest owned by the breeder and I have sold bulls and kept an interest. Both have worked out fine on the interest that I have maintained I pay for the collection it is done when bulls are not being used and it is at my expense. I go get the bull or I send some one to collect it at the bulls home. It is for in herd use no cost to the new owner.

I also am an owner on a syndacte bull and just get semen and never have seen the bull since sale he was bought at three years ago.

If you are dealing with reputable breeders it should not be a problem.


Jeff
 

TheBullLady

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To play devil's advocate here.. I bought a bull a few years ago at a registered sale that was only being offered because the two owners who were going to promote him couldn't get along. I got a great deal on the bull, while they probably both lost money.

I'm so cynical...
 

grubbie

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I buy a bull, that breeds my cows, I sell the calves, that make me money. Simple. It is not a big thing around here where most people make their money raising beef cattle, but I guess if I wanted to buy a bull and the seller wanted interest in the semen, doesn't make a sandhill worth of difference to me as long as I get to sell my calves. Now,...when the seller wants to inflate the price for some "super bull" and retain the semen interest, that is a problem. The calves out of that bull don't make me any more money than those from a good quality bull that I may spend $2000.00 to buy. Some of those bulls that folks want to retain interest in are for rich folks,....I will never have to worry about that :)
 

redluv

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When we sell bulls, we maintain 1/2 interest in semen. If the bull produces great calves, etc., we pay for the cost to collect the bull, the buyer gets either 1/2 of the semen collected or gets 1/2 of the profits. We haven't had anyone complain about it yet, but we have only collected on 2 bulls in the past 5 years...
 

Northern Rancher

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Knersie why not buy that bull back and just use him A'I-if he can pass the A'I stud health tests he should be alright health wise. I'm a commercial breeder but I've owner a share in quite a few bulls with purebred guys-never had an insurmountable problem yet.
 

KNERSIE

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Northern Rancher":2x9yv8yy said:
Knersie why not buy that bull back and just use him A'I-if he can pass the A'I stud health tests he should be alright health wise. I'm a commercial breeder but I've owner a share in quite a few bulls with purebred guys-never had an insurmountable problem yet.

That was actually on the cards untill i've secured another 50 straws of semen from the sire I am building my breeding program on. Along with other AI sires in the lineup and older semen in the tank I'm set for the next two breeding seasons minimum and I have a very good prospect being tested at the moment.

I still have the bull's dam and 8 units of his sire's semen so there are still lots of opportunities to replicate his breeding. One of the bulls I used last year is a paternal halfbrother out of a halfsib of his dam. Another fullsib is on a farm not far from me that I have kept close for a reason although I don't think he is quite his older brother.
 

cleland

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usallly between $2 and $4 to collect and freeze it
 
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