Worthy to be a bull?

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gooberland

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Had an ai calf born early July this year to a heifer. Heifer was already 2 years of age and unfortunately schedules pushed breeding too late, but given heifers age we decided to go ahead and breed her and take necessary precautions with a summer calf.

Little guy was born on a brutal summer day, during a brutal (as expected) early July week in North Texas.

We only have two that we ai’d and he was the only bull calf, but in the next few weeks each of these calves is getting ran through and I’m trying to determine if this guy has potential as a bull. Difficult to judge without any others his age range to compare him too, of course not ideal that he’s out of a heifer either. We planned to cut him regardless but he’s maturing nicely and would like others opinions… he is a registerable Murray Grey.
 

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greybeard

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Looks good. I never understand the dis on a heifer's calf.
Some tend to be slower maturing but that has more to do with the momma's maternal instincts than the calf IMO. Being 2 yrs old when bred may make a lot of difference tho.
I don't have any experience with MGs but.. Gooberland, the little bull looks good to me and shows big potential on his muscling in the rear end. Does seem to have a lot of 'leather' up front but that may be part of Murray Greys? Nice picture angles for analysis too.
 

MurraysMutts

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I dont know what the problem would be coming out of a heifer. Assume mother is Murray Grey as well?
Do u know the cows lineage?

I bet he does well...
Fact is, I'd be interested in a bull of Murray Grey persuasion
 
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gooberland

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Mother is registered MG. Out of a smaller (maybe 20?) MG cowherd in Parker Co.

Trouble is I’m just getting started with MG and really registered animals in general and it’s not feasible for us to retain him personally. Just the older he gets the more I’m feeling bad about cutting him.
 
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gooberland

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Some tend to be slower maturing but that has more to do with the momma's maternal instincts than the calf IMO. Being 2 yrs old when bred may make a lot of difference tho.
I don't have any experience with MGs but.. Gooberland, the little bull looks good to me and shows big potential on his muscling in the rear end. Does seem to have a lot of 'leather' up front but that may be part of Murray Greys? Nice picture angles for analysis too.
Thanks Greybeard. I thought he had good bit of leather also, although it does seem some MG have a little extra. I don’t have enough experience with them to say firsthand though.
 

MurraysMutts

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Mother is registered MG. Out of a smaller (maybe 20?) MG cowherd in Parker Co.

Trouble is I’m just getting started with MG and really registered animals in general and it’s not feasible for us to retain him personally. Just the older he gets the more I’m feeling bad about cutting him.
So keep him intact and sell him when the time comes. Good Murray Grey are hard to find and being an ai calf, I bet hes got good DNA

Theres a couple top notch breeders on here. I'm excited to see what they have to say...

@Backbone Ranch

@TwoByrdsMG

@puzzled in oregon

@clubbiebreeder
 
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Ouachita

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I’m just jumping in because me and my wife are sitting here reading the forum and she asked “who is gooberland”, with a twinkle in her eye.
Following along. Nothing to see here.
 

lithuanian farmer

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He looks to have some potential to be a bull. If he grows just like that, he could make a very nice bull in the future.

Had heard some talks about not keeping offspring from first calvers for breeding, but never payed attention to that. Our one of the best bull we've used in the herd was from a heifer. He sired some really good growing calves and left us high quality daughters, which themselves produce very nice calves too.
 
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gooberland

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He looks to have some potential to be a bull. If he grows just like that, he could make a very nice bull in the future.

Had heard some talks about not keeping offspring from first calvers for breeding, but never payed attention to that. Our one of the best bull we've used in the herd was from a heifer. He sired some really good growing calves and left us high quality daughters, which themselves produce very nice calves too.
Thanks for sharing, I appreciate the feedback.

I didn’t expect a grower from a first calver on an overgrazed rough, summer pasture. Although maybe that speaks more for the dam than the calf.
 

MurraysMutts

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Thanks for sharing, I appreciate the feedback.

I didn’t expect a grower from a first calver on an overgrazed rough, summer pasture. Although maybe that speaks more for the dam than the calf.
Speaking of which..

How bout a pic of mama??
Do u have epds on the sire?
Idk much about epds but lots of other folks here do
 

FungusProudKY31

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Thanks Fungus. I don’t mean to dis on the heifers, I guess I’ve just heard it said to find bulls out of old momma cows when possible. That’s the only real downside to me with the heifers.
I'd agree with you if the heifer's full background is unknown. But if you have the cow family or know that the prior females functioned well then I have no issue. Same with heifers. I knew a guy who would not keep a heifer calf out of a first calf heifer. He never figured out that the folks who bought them and used them were quite pleased. I know they tend to be a tad smaller at weaning but the genes are the same. Funny world.
 
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gooberland

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Speaking of which..

How bout a pic of mama??
Do u have epds on the sire?
Idk much about epds but lots of other folks here do
I was just digging through to see if I have any good pics of her. For some reason the pics in my phone that are more than a couple weeks old will not download to their highest quality… but I’ll see what I can figure out.
Speaking of which..

How bout a pic of mama??
Do u have epds on the sire?
Idk much about epds but lots of other folks here do
First pic is dam and calf at 12 hours old.

3rd pic Dam pictured on left with half sister.

4th is dam’s half sister with her heifer calf

5th pic is another of bull calf at 30 days old

My wife took the pics of the calf yesterday with her camera - so these aren’t quite as nice but should give an idea.
 

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waihou

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Heifers calves can often be carrying the best genetics if you are selecting your breeding stock on improving the herd. We always calve heifers at around 2 years old (MG herd in NZ) and even though the calves may be smaller at birth they catch up rapidly if the genetics are right! Your bull looks like he has great muscling already and if there is a market for bulls over with you then keep him as a bull. We sell most of our Murray Grey yearling bulls to the dairy industry here as there is a move to produce beef x dairy calves for rearing for beef rather than the straight dairy, mainly Jersey and Jersey x Holstein bull calves being disposed of soon after birth.

Pictured is a 30kg calf from a 2 year old heifer and now at 14 months of age, ready to meet the bull. Her Epds (EBVs to us) suggest she is up there with the best. Above breed average for all the traits except she is leaner than breed average. She will be scanned for eye muscle size and marbling at 20 months of age.
 

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TwoByrdsMG

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Mutts, He’s out of Backbone’s Uncle Tony.
Hello gooberland :cool:, welcome to the MG club. Bull calf looks good. Easy birth, getting some growth on him, nice head and dam looks good. Sometimes when you are getting started its tough selling the bulls.

My only suggestion would be don't cut him if you think he has the potential to be a bull. You don't want to regret taking those balls and you can't put them back on- I've learned the hard way.

He has a good phenotype, will be a calving ease/heifer bull prospect and still has a masculine appeal that we all want in a bull.

For the "leather"- I worry most about the sheath area and not about the neck. If he starts looking like he has too much then it might be a problem but I've seen them tighten up as they get more towards weaning age.

So give him some time.
 

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