Wormer for fly control?

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gberry

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Anyone on these boards use wormer as their main fly control? We don't usually worm our mature cows, but last summer, we had a few that looked to need worming. I treated about 20% of the cows with generic ivermectin pour on and within 2 days, the flies were gone and stayed gone for about 6 weeks. Since then, when the flies get heavy, we treat a few of the sorrier looking cows and it seems to be working well. For those of you who like to worm your cows yearly, you could treat 25-30% of the herd at a time and control flies through the summer without any extra costs strictly for fly control. Anyone see any problem with this?
 

SRBeef

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gberry":1n6puq0s said:
Anyone on these boards use wormer as their main fly control? We don't usually worm our mature cows, but last summer, we had a few that looked to need worming. I treated about 20% of the cows with generic ivermectin pour on and within 2 days, the flies were gone and stayed gone for about 6 weeks. Since then, when the flies get heavy, we treat a few of the sorrier looking cows and it seems to be working well. For those of you who like to worm your cows yearly, you could treat 25-30% of the herd at a time and control flies through the summer without any extra costs strictly for fly control. Anyone see any problem with this?

I am no expert in fly control but the dewormers are designed to be that, dewormers, for internal parasites. They are potent and have a withdrawal period. The label says the dose should be applied by weight of the animal. Randomly applying dewormer as a fly control does not seem like a good idea to me.

Another approach is to spray them with Permectrin mixed in diesel fuel. This is intended for fly control. The diesel keeps the Permectrin/permythrin (sp) on them longer than water. Watch out for fly control mixes that caution against causing blindness if get in the eyes.... Or use a rub doused with the same mix. Needs to be done frequently with rains the way they are across the north. jmho. Jim
 

1982vett

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SRBeef":1wgrjarr said:
gberry":1wgrjarr said:
Anyone on these boards use wormer as their main fly control? We don't usually worm our mature cows, but last summer, we had a few that looked to need worming. I treated about 20% of the cows with generic ivermectin pour on and within 2 days, the flies were gone and stayed gone for about 6 weeks. Since then, when the flies get heavy, we treat a few of the sorrier looking cows and it seems to be working well. For those of you who like to worm your cows yearly, you could treat 25-30% of the herd at a time and control flies through the summer without any extra costs strictly for fly control. Anyone see any problem with this?

I am no expert in fly control but the dewormers are designed to be that, dewormers, for internal parasites. They are potent and have a withdrawal period. The label says the dose should be applied by weight of the animal. Randomly applying dewormer as a fly control does not seem like a good idea to me.

Another approach is to spray them with Permectrin mixed in diesel fuel. This is intended for fly control. The diesel keeps the Permectrin/permythrin (sp) on them longer than water. Watch out for fly control mixes that caution against causing blindness if get in the eyes.... Or use a rub doused with the same mix. Needs to be done frequently with rains the way they are across the north. jmho. Jim
I wouldn't recommend that method. Try dousing yourself with diesel and leave it on and see how you like it. However, used on a rubbing rope is quite all right.

Also, I doubt the "diesel keeps the permectrin/permythrin (sp) on them longer than water" rather than the diesel itself acts as a deterrent. Throw a fly in water and it will climb out and fly away. Throw one in diesel and it is dead.

I don't use the pour-on wormers as fly control, but it do use them in spring and fall as worm control.
 
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gberry

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1982vett":27b7q542 said:
SRBeef":27b7q542 said:
gberry":27b7q542 said:
Anyone on these boards use wormer as their main fly control? We don't usually worm our mature cows, but last summer, we had a few that looked to need worming. I treated about 20% of the cows with generic ivermectin pour on and within 2 days, the flies were gone and stayed gone for about 6 weeks. Since then, when the flies get heavy, we treat a few of the sorrier looking cows and it seems to be working well. For those of you who like to worm your cows yearly, you could treat 25-30% of the herd at a time and control flies through the summer without any extra costs strictly for fly control. Anyone see any problem with this?

I am no expert in fly control but the dewormers are designed to be that, dewormers, for internal parasites. They are potent and have a withdrawal period. The label says the dose should be applied by weight of the animal. Randomly applying dewormer as a fly control does not seem like a good idea to me.

Another approach is to spray them with Permectrin mixed in diesel fuel. This is intended for fly control. The diesel keeps the Permectrin/permythrin (sp) on them longer than water. Watch out for fly control mixes that caution against causing blindness if get in the eyes.... Or use a rub doused with the same mix. Needs to be done frequently with rains the way they are across the north. jmho. Jim
I wouldn't recommend that method. Try dousing yourself with diesel and leave it on and see how you like it. However, used on a rubbing rope is quite all right.

Also, I doubt the "diesel keeps the permectrin/permythrin (sp) on them longer than water" rather than the diesel itself acts as a deterrent. Throw a fly in water and it will climb out and fly away. Throw one in diesel and it is dead.

I don't use the pour-on wormers as fly control, but it do use them in spring and fall as worm control.

We don't randomly apply the dewormer, but at the recommended dose. I don't see the difference in treating all of the herd spring and fall and 25% of the the herd at 6 week intervals through the summer.
 

MO_cows

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We only noticed a couple weeks fly control with pour-on wormer. And no help with horseflies. We worm twice a year per the advice of our vet, and we got the same advice from an experienced cattleman friend. Down there in Florida, maybe you don't have to buy hay in the winter. It's one of our biggest expenses and we want the cows to get all the nutrition from it, not parasites.
 
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gberry

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MO_cows":1bdkhf53 said:
We only noticed a couple weeks fly control with pour-on wormer. And no help with horseflies. We worm twice a year per the advice of our vet, and we got the same advice from an experienced cattleman friend. Down there in Florida, maybe you don't have to buy hay in the winter. It's one of our biggest expenses and we want the cows to get all the nutrition from it, not parasites.
We try not to buy any more hay than we need, but always end up buying some. Our dry cows do pretty well on stockpiled grass until our winter grazing comes on. I'm undecided on worming mature cows as a rule. I think there is clear benefit in growing cattle, but at some point mature cattle should be able to perform with a certain parasite load. You're not going to get rid of all internal parasites no matter how often you worm. We have only used it in the past on mature cows that weren't thriving, but since we noticed the effect on flies, we have been worming the herd once a year about 25% at a time. We don't have significant numbers of horse flies.
 

jedstivers

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I'm not sure but in FL you probably have liver flukes like we have here. The only thing that will get them in ivomec injectable. Cows need treated twice a year. For fly control use sprays, rubs and insecticide in the mineral.
 

1982vett

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gberry":a1v78z6c said:
We don't randomly apply the dewormer, but at the recommended dose. I don't see the difference in treating all of the herd spring and fall and 25% of the the herd at 6 week intervals through the summer.
Cost for one. Their are less expensive ways of dealing with flys. I'll control flies on more head of cattle out of a $12 quart of 10% permethrin than I will out of $138 5 liter jug of ivermectin pour-on wormer.
 

SRBeef

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82vett,

The permectrin can be mixed in mineral oil or vegetable oil, diesel is just more available. I use rubs myself but don't see much difference between a cow standing under a recently soaked rub (as they are doing today) vs a light spray from a garden sprayer.

They like the rub with the flyps hanging down, especially right after I soak it. I think they are smart enough to realize that this helps keep the annoying flies away.

Not arguing, I just don't see the difference. If you don't like diesel, mix it with mineral oil or vegetable oil. It does get on their undersides better than a rub. The PHWhite rub website is where I first got the diesel idea and it seems to work with no ill effects. The key appears to be use some sort of oil rather than water. Jim
 

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SRBeef":3luy65o1 said:
82vett,

The permectrin can be mixed in mineral oil or vegetable oil, diesel is just more available. I use rubs myself but don't see much difference between a cow standing under a recently soaked rub (as they are doing today) vs a light spray from a garden sprayer.

They like the rub with the flyps hanging down, especially right after I soak it. I think they are smart enough to realize that this helps keep the annoying flies away.

Not arguing, I just don't see the difference. If you don't like diesel, mix it with mineral oil or vegetable oil. It does get on their undersides better than a rub. The PHWhite rub website is where I first got the diesel idea and it seems to work with no ill effects. The key appears to be use some sort of oil rather than water. Jim
SRB, most everyone here uses diesel on the rubs but even a slight mist of diesel in the southern heat and on a Brahma is a bad deal, it will cause their skin to flake up.
 

1982vett

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Labeled use.

TREATMENT OF ANIMALS AND ANIMAL QUARTERS:
PESTS DILUTIONS (mix well) HOW TO APPLY
PESTS ON LARGE ANIMALS
(Dairy or Beef Cattle, Horses, Sheep and Goats)
Horn Flies, Face Flies, For severe infestations, dilute 1.28 oz per Spray thoroughly to cover the entire
Stable Flies, Mos- gallon of water (1 part concentrate to animal. For lice or Mites, a second treatquitoes,
Lice, Mites, 99 parts water) (0.1%). ment is recommended in 14-21 days.
Ticks (including deer For normal infestations, dilute 0.64 oz Spray lactating dairy cows only after
tick which may carry per gallon of water (1 part concentrate milking is completed.
Lyme disease) to 199 parts water) (0.05%).
Horn Flies, Face Flies, Dilute 2 oz per gallon of water (.16%). Spot Treatment – Low Pressure Spray –
Stable Flies, Ear Ticks Apply 1/2 oz per ear or 1-4 oz on face or
12-16 oz along the backline.
Horn Flies, Face Flies, Dilute 8 oz in 5 gal oil (0.125%). BACKRUBBER – Keep backrubber
Horseflies, Ear Ticks charged. Results can be improved by
forced use.


Labeled use does not include mixing with diesel, mineral or vegetable oil and spraying on livestock.
 

MO_cows

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I saw a bottle of concentrate at Orscheln's today that was labeled to be mixed with water or diesel. Can't recall the brand. I think in days gone by, farmers used just the diesel because it was cheap and it worked pretty well on its own. So when the chemicals came along they were labeled for the diesel mixture partly for market acceptance. But diesel isn't so cheap anymore, and if using a rub the cattle will re-apply the insecticide daily anyway so the "staying power" of the diesel wouldn't matter. IMHO, it's a practice of the past, like feeding a plug of chewing tobacco for worming or making your kids take cod liver oil.
 

SRBeef

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To each his own. However for the record here is the suggested fly control mix chart from the rub manufactuer's website http://www.phwhite.com I believe they are located in TN.

Web-page-5-A.jpg


As I was out tonight moving my cattle between paddocks and dousing the rubs with more diesel/permectrin mix since we had rain early this morning and I try to add some mix to the rub after rain.

My bull almost immediately came over and positioned himself under one rub and stood there moving back and forth under it for msybe 5 or 10 minutes. I've been using it for several years now, with a diesel permectrin mix per PH White's instructions. PH White has been in business and recommending this for many years. This seems to work for me.

IMG_1264_1.JPG


IMG_1263_2.JPG


I guess we can each use whatever it is we are comfortable with and works. The Permectrin II manufacturers label says water for house animals and water or oil for large animals/cattle. Permethrins have low toxicity for mammals and is in many medicines for humans including shampoos. The 10% solutions commonly sold usually include 90% petroleum products, according to the labels. A 4 oz Permectrin II in 2.5 gal of diesel solution does a good job on flies so far for my cattle.

Jim
 

cypressfarms

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gberry":3e0d57v0 said:
For those of you who like to worm your cows yearly, you could treat 25-30% of the herd at a time and control flies through the summer without any extra costs strictly for fly control. Anyone see any problem with this?

Yes, I see a glaring problem with this. One of the biggest problems with effective medecines is the mis-use of them. By using the wormer as a insecticide you could conceivably develop parasite resistantance to your wormer very fast. What you are suggesting is a "continual" type administration to have an added benefit of fly control. My advice would be not to do this. There are too many effective ways to control flies without risking problems with your wormer. Parasites will naturally develop a resistance to medicines over several years dependant upon the parasite's life cycle; except in your case they will do it much more quickly because of the constant application. I just wouldn't chance it. If someone thinks I'm way off base, please chime in, but many of our medecines of today are not as effective as they used to be - and one of the reasons is because of incorrect dosage and mis-use.
 

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jedstivers":c1twctqt said:
SRBeef":c1twctqt said:
82vett,

The permectrin can be mixed in mineral oil or vegetable oil, diesel is just more available. I use rubs myself but don't see much difference between a cow standing under a recently soaked rub (as they are doing today) vs a light spray from a garden sprayer.

They like the rub with the flyps hanging down, especially right after I soak it. I think they are smart enough to realize that this helps keep the annoying flies away.

Not arguing, I just don't see the difference. If you don't like diesel, mix it with mineral oil or vegetable oil. It does get on their undersides better than a rub. The PHWhite rub website is where I first got the diesel idea and it seems to work with no ill effects. The key appears to be use some sort of oil rather than water. Jim
SRB, most everyone here uses diesel on the rubs but even a slight mist of diesel in the southern heat and on a Brahma is a bad deal, it will cause their skin to flake up.[/quote]
Yup, blisters the Piedmontese as well....
 

Red Bull Breeder

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Used motor oil is what i use. If using the pour works for gberry i guess that what he needs to do. I do no a person who does what gberry does except he worms whole herd 4 times a year. Once in the spring twice in the summer and agin in late fall.
 

SRBeef

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CKC1586":38ujawpb said:
SRB, most everyone here uses diesel on the rubs but even a slight mist of diesel in the southern heat and on a Brahma is a bad deal, it will cause their skin to flake up.
Yup, blisters the Piedmontese as well....


Thank you. Obviously I don't know anything about Brahma's or Piedmontese. Do you use standard dewormers on these breeds?

Question for original poster gberry: Are you saying that putting dewormer on 1/4 of your herd keeps the flies off of them all?
 

chippie

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We use Eprinex (http://tinyurl.com/Eprinex) pour-on wormer because we have dairy cattle. The labeling states:

The broadest-spectrum parasite control product available. Only EPRINEX® kills 42 species and stages of internal and external parasites, including roundworms, lungworms, grubs, mange mites, horn flies, and biting and sucking lice. Backed by Merial's Satisfaction Guarantee! EPRINEX® is weatherproof and has no meat withdrawal or milk withholding.

It is effective keeping flies off for about a week or two depending on the weather.
 

TexasBred

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gberry":31yublq7 said:
Anyone on these boards use wormer as their main fly control? We don't usually worm our mature cows, but last summer, we had a few that looked to need worming. I treated about 20% of the cows with generic ivermectin pour on and within 2 days, the flies were gone and stayed gone for about 6 weeks. Since then, when the flies get heavy, we treat a few of the sorrier looking cows and it seems to be working well. For those of you who like to worm your cows yearly, you could treat 25-30% of the herd at a time and control flies through the summer without any extra costs strictly for fly control. Anyone see any problem with this?

Probably one of the least effective and most expensive methods out there. I worm cattle a minimum of twice a year but also everytime they go thru the working chute for any reason. Otherwise the IGR Minerals seem to work well for flies.
 
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