Woody tongue

[rockridgecattle]

our first case.
2 weeks ago, we checked the cows out. We usually check about once a week, but this summer it has been more often because of the worry of foot rot. Any how we have the cows in three separate pastures. Older cows, then first and second calvers and finally the hiefers for breeding. We added a couple of cow calf pairs to the hiefers cause the calves were late calvers and too small for the big pastures.
This one cow, in with the hiefers, she was 2 and had her first calf with her. She should have got a bit of extra groceries. She is a heavy milker and the calf was pulling her down a bit. but her BCS was still not bad. Being short on feed we decided to just wait it out. We checked again in a week, she was still okay, hadn't changed.
Well 4 days later after the rains we were back out their again and checking we almost missed her she was that thin. Her jaw was slightly swollen underneath in the tender area between the jaw bone. She had a hard time eating grass. Salavating (sp) everywhere. If she stood straight on you could have misssed her, she was that thin. We were appalled that we let a cow ge that bad. Anyways we got her home after wading in waist deep water, called the vet and the vet came out the next day. Got the cow chuted up, nose to the sky and checked out the mouth. The vet diagnosed wooden tongue. She, the vet, gave her the iodine IV treatment and LA200. We are to give her another shot of LA200 in three days and update the vet on her condition. She might need another iodine treatment, but, the vet figured one treatment should do it cause we caught it in the early stage.
I did not know this but woody tongue is fatal if left untreated and LA200 is not strong enough to treat on it's own, hence the iodine treatment.
24 hours after treament she is back chewing her cud and eating hay. We have her and her calf by the barn with last years 2nd cut alfafla bales, and they seem quite content for now. Her belly is even filling out now.
learn something new every day!

 

[dun]

WOW, that's all I can say. I'm that speachless.

 

[rockridgecattle]

WOW, that's all I can say. I'm that speachless.

why, cause we let a cow get that bad? It came on pretty fast. We were watching her making sure the she could handle her calf on her own. It just happened so fast. Had we known, we woud have treated sooner.

 

[hillsdown]

Glad she is doing better RR.

What causes wooden tongue ?
I have heard of it from people posting on here before but thankfully have never encountered it,,,touch wood...

 

[dun]

WOW, that's all I can say. I'm that speachless.

why, cause we let a cow get that bad?

No because it did happen so fast

 

[rockridgecattle]

Dun, maybe she had it started for a bit and we did not realize. If one was to look at her jaw she looks like she has alot of fat under there, not swelling from the bacteria. We watch the cows closely for lumpy jaw cause we have had a problem with that on the farm the last few years. So if that was not something we were watching for, maybe she would have gotten worse before we really took notice of her.

Hillsdown, the vet says its a bacteria that gets into a wound in the mouth.
I did not ask the vet, but because of the treatment i suspect that lack of iodine has played a role in it. Since we have had so much rain they are are going nuts for the salt blocks. We give them free choice salt and mineral 24/7 and we can't keep them stocked with salt. They seem to not want their mineral though. I am going to the co-op on Monday to get some more loose salt to dump in the mineral for them. If they want the salt they are going to have to have some mineral with it!

 

[rockridgecattle]

her jaw looks a bit more swollen tonight. But she is eating well. We will check on her tomorrow morning. This is new for us and we just do not know what to expect.

 

[hillsdown]

RR same here, they hardly touch their minerals this summer as well but the HiBoot disappears right away.

Keep us updated on her condition; and you have given me one more thing to keep an eye on with this wet season.

 

[TheBullLady]

Last year I had a cow that had woody tongue.. the first one I've had in almost 20 years of raising cattle. I had noticed the swelling pretty quickly, and thought perhaps it was an abcess, as I have had a few of those! She could still graze and eat, so it was probably two weeks or so into it before I hauled her to A & M. They diagnosed her, and gave her a shot of iodine ( I think that's what it was.. it's late, and I'm too glued to the couch to get up and check the report) and lost a bet with me when they (the vet) said she couldn't eat with that condition. Anyway, they had me bring her back in 10 days for a second treatment, and she was fine after that.

It can be fatal.. you're right about that. It seems the cow either gets better right away, or goes downhill rapidly.

 

[kdhansen]

We had a bull with woody tongue. At the time, I had no idea what was wrong with him, just that he sure was not eating "right". Had the vet take a look at him...didn't take him 5 seconds to determine woody tongue, tongue was larger and harder than normal. Said, as previous poster, probably from bacteria getting into a cut or something on his tongue. But he had us use Nuflor...2 doses, 48 hours apart. Saw a change immediately. Never even mentioned iodine (though I've heard that used for lumpy jaw??)

 

[Foxx]

Have a cow with it now. Darn! She's due in a month. Can't give her iodine because it will abort her. She's also on Nuflor (darned expensive medicine). she has Baytril for the pain since she's lost a lot of weight (not a good time for that) and Nuflor every two days for a week.

The vet said, "if she gets better" ad then something about you might want to keep her. Hubby picked her up, so I don't know how the conversation went, but it made me a bit nervous anyway. She's a really good cow, so I'd hate to see her go down. They said "that's a big calf or twins." They were really full of good news yesterday! She herself was a twin, and although I wouldn't mind having twin heifers if a three year old cow can handle them herself (which I wonder), she carried a bull last year, and I don't much need twin bulls or a free martin. If twins, she is going to become a recip.

I guess, if we can keep her alive, and if she calves soon, we can always give her iodine. Wonder if they can take that when they are nursing.

 

[rockridgecattle]

We have done the iodine treatment for lumpy jaw on a nursing cow. No problems there. Well actually the vet did it.
Did you ask the vet if you can increase her iodine through the mineral?
We do that for the whole herd since we are iodine deficient and lumpy jaw is a regular thing around here. The woody tongue was a first though.
We add iodine in the mineral regularly until they show signs of getting to much. Then we back off the iodine for a while.
i have more to add about the condition of our woody tongue cow, but hubby needs me. BRB
RR

 

[rockridgecattle]

I'm back
Our woody tongue cow has improved in the mouth area greatly. She however turned up open so no calf from her this year and we could not ship her because her BCS was so poor. Not to mention she would have brought nothing if we did ship her.
It has taken all winter and she is just starting to look not bad. Extra hay and extra grain to put the pounds on. I should mention that the hay is crap so that makes a difference. I will have to post a pic of her today.
So can your cow raise a calf properly, that remains to be seen. I would have on hand some either frozen colostrum or some powder, 100 IGg...the good stuff cause your colostrum will be poor in that cow. You should also keep an eye on that calf. The calf will more than likely not be as thrifty when born due to the momma being so sick. As well since the cow is run down, not only will the colostrum be poor but more than likely the quality and quanity of the milk will not be up to par. This cow with a calf nursing on her will have a hard time regaining BCS if she pulls through. She will also have a hard time rebreeding due to the stress on her body.
If you are going to consider treating and keeping her, I would pull the calf when born and bottle feed.

 

[farmwriter]

We've got one, too. She started falling off a little last fall, then drooling, but she always ate and drank fine, and would appear to start gaining weight. Then she'd start drooling and loosing weight again. We gave her some penicilin and B12 a month or so ago to little effect. She went to the vet last week and he said she was a little wormy. Blood work revealed nothing but parasites and vet lit up her mouth trying to find a problem but saw nothing. I was SHOCKED to hear she was bred.
This morning her tongue is probably eight inches wide and protruding at least that much. I'm dumbfounded. Our vet said treatment is not likely to be effective. Any thoughts?
We've never heard of this before.

 

[rockridgecattle]

being as long as she has gone i don't know. How many IV iodine treatments would she need? 2 or 3? Plus LA200? What was the doc's prognosis on the treatments and how would the doc have treated and the cost.
The IV iodine treatment could make her abort. As well, having gone so long, she might have a bit of lumpy jaw now
You are going to have to price the treatments past, present , and future as well as the risk of an an abortion, possible retained placenta treatment, remember, I said possible, and feed to bring her back to condition, if she will get back to that point.

RR

 

[HerefordSire]

actinobacillosis is the term name

This is what it looks like if you were to pull the tongue out.


View attachment 1


Treatment
The earlier the treatment is instigated, the more likely it is to be successful. Early treatment of wooden tongue is usually successful, but advanced cases may fail to respond. The most effective treatment is probably iodine therapy. The initial dose of Sodide® (sodium iodide) is best given intravenously by your veterinarian. Follow-up subcutaneous injections at weekly intervals for several weeks are likely to be necessary in deep-seated cases. However, subcutaneous treatment alone may be effective.

Treatment with tetracyclines daily for five days is also reported to be effective.

Advanced cases may require surgical drainage, and opened abscesses should be irrigated or swabbed with iodine for several days. All treated animals should be observed regularly, as relapses can occur.

Treatment of lumpy jaw is similar, but is often ineffective. If the disease is detected early, it may be better to dispose of the animal while it is still in good condition. Only the head should be condemned by meat inspectors, unless the lesions have spread elsewhere in the body.


http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/l ... den-tongue

 

[farmwriter]

Had to put her down. :cry2: Vet said if we were able to fight the bacteria effectively, swelling was so severe she likely would not regain proper use of her tongue. I still can't believe she showed no sign of swelling the night before or during oral exam by vet the week before. She wasn't our best cow, but I feel awful about the fact that we could have saved her and her calf if we had known last fall what was going on. Lesson learned, I guess, but it's an expensive one.

 

[Keren]

WOW, that's all I can say. I'm that speachless.

why, cause we let a cow get that bad?

No because it did happen so fast

Dun, my one and only experience with wooden tongue was a 14ish month old angus heifer. I fed up (she was in the show complex) and left the property friday evening, everything was normal, she ate her feed no problems. Popped in on sunday morning on my way to a show, just to grab something, and she was in the yards and I just about died. I couldnt believe it was the same animal. She would have been a BCS 6.5 on Friday and was a 1 on Sunday. I absolutely swear I kid you not that is how rapid it was, and I was just in shock that she had lost soooo much weight, she was near dead. Her tongue was hanging out of her mouth and slobber everywhere, so I kinda got a heads up with what was wrong. I got her up in the crush and had a look, and sure enough wooden tongue 'lesions' I guess you would call them, were on the underside of the tongue and so large that she physically couldnt pull her tongue back into her mouth. She physically couldnt eat and was just getting barely enough water.

We pulled her through that bout and she was good as gold until about 5 mths later, she got it again. She was euthanased, she was no longer in my care for show preparation so I dont know whether the guy tried to treat her but it didnt work, or whether he shot her straight away.

 

[Ozhorse]

I have a 12 mo heifer that most probably has woody tongue. I am newbie-ish so have not seen it before. I would appreciate some advice from those who have dealt with it.

I found the heifer in a wrong paddock looking terrible and managed to get her to the yards. She has her tongue sticking out. Her face is swollen and hard under the jaw. I am sure she is not able to drink as she keeps going to the trough, and she looks like she has not drunk for a number of days. She will pick up hay with the end of her tongue and tries to eat but I don't think she can swallow or chew.

I had heard the words "wooden tongue" on this forum so I looked it up. After reading about it I called the meat works who could have taken her tomorrow morning. Then I called two different vets. Both said it was readily treatable with antibiotics and that it was worth trying as she was so dehydrated the meat would probably be condemned anyway. One suggested I try to get 30 litres of electrolytes down her neck even though she can't swallow. The electrolytes sound like a big fuss with a good chance of killing her with water in the lungs.

I gave her long acting Oxytetracycline that a vet suggested and that I had on hand (no more meat works option). He says just give her 30 ml every 3 days and he thinks she will probably come good. He said he does not think it is likely to recur.

I am not so hopeful, she will have to improve enough in two or three days to swallow or she is dead anyway.

Because I live in Australia the economics are that the animal is worth less than a vet treatment so that is not an option.

I read about IV iodine treatment and iodine deficiency. Neither vet here suggested it. It has been a super wet two years and there are lots of mineral deficiencies. I have priced lots of different mineral and salt products and can't justify the cost of proper supplementation for all the animals here vs the value of the animals and total income.

Perhaps I should consider minerals just for the young heifers as they need it more than older cows? Yes/No?

So two main questions:

1) In your experience is it likely she will get better with only antibiotic treatment?
2) Does Wooden Tongue and Lumpy jaw seem to be related to mineral deficiency IN YOUR EXPERIENCE (not what the books say)

 

[calfbuyer]

i had one last month with the exact same thing. I notice a little swelling but didnt think much about it, then a week later she looked like He!!, tongue hanging out slobbering lost 100 pounds. I hauled her to the house and gave 50cc of la-200 and it cleared up. A week later it came back, i got her in the chute and gave another 50cc of la-200 and 20cc of penicylinn and it cleared up and has not been back for a month now. From what i found by researching, (this was my first experience with it as well) it is a bacteria that enters the system through the mouth by a open wound in the mouth.