wolves-wreak-havoc-cattle-herds-california

[chevytaHOE5674]

Thats why folks gut shoot them.

I've been informed that when the mortality signal goes out on the newer collars they can trace the animals movements back a "couple days". Just something to be aware of when your weighing if federal prison times worth the risk.

 

[sgreear]

If it is a tagged animal they can tell exactly where it was shot and when it was shot

 

[Dave]

If it is a tagged animal they can tell exactly where it was shot and when it was shot

And how can they tell that? I know for a fact that the collar just sends out a beep once every 20 minutes or so. Me and all my neighbors have all had calves killed by wolves. We are very familiar with how collars work, the local biologist, and what they know. Believe me there are a lot of wolves out there which they have absolutely no idea exist.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Sends out beeps? That sounds like old school radio collars.

The newer GPS collars they have been using on some wolves here have near real time tracking as well as vital monitoring. I've been to a few lectures at Michigan Tech University where they had real time wolf locations up on the the big screen as well as other information about each collared animal.

 

[Dave]

Very few of the wolves are collared here. It is difficult and expensive to do. So it is generally one per pack and it is one of the alpha partners. Mostly it is the female but that is not 100% just what they prefer. Young wolves who disperse out from the pack go off the fish and game radar screen.
A couple years ago the wolves were killing a yearling every other day. My neighbor who runs cows real close to this area was with a group who hiked in to inspect things. While there some wolves stated to howling fairly close. My neighbor was the only one packing. They insisted that he stay with the group and they all stayed right together.
They watched a couple steers walk off. Two wolves went trailing after them some distance back. The county AG was with the group and he said that he considered that harassment and a person could legally shoot those wolves.
Neighbor said it was pretty interesting to get a bunch of urban dwellers several miles back into the hills surrounded by a pack of wolves. He said there vocal opinion of wolves changed.
The AG also told my neighbor to remember you do have the right to remain silent. People here take that seriously.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

See here there is no lethal control of wolves except in defense of human life (ive been told you better have bite marks ha). So if they are eating your cattle then fish and Wildlife will tell you to move your cattle, get a donkey, get noise cannon devices, etc. So they take the collars and dead wolves very serious.

In the last 15 years fish and wildlife have only killed I think 2 problem wolves. And that was an absolute fight to get done.

 

[Travlr]

I'm kind of surprised that the livestock owners don't admit they kill wolves...
Every stinkin' one of every person owning cows admitting that they kill each wolf that ends up dead. Thirty/fifty/a hundred people admitting that they are the one that killed each wolf. Wyoming guys admitting that they killed that wolf in Michigan, and New Yorkers admitting they killed that wolf in Oregon.
It's not the wolves that are the problem... it's the people that think your cattle are worthless and your way of life is negotiable.

 

[Dave]

That pack where the group walked into. The game dept issued a kill permit for 2 wolves. They did the killing. The Alpha male and a yearling. About a year later the collared alpha female was shot by someone during hunting season. A reward was offered but nobody came forward.

 

[Dave]

I'm kind of surprised that the livestock owners don't admit they kill wolves...
Every stinkin' one of every person owning cows admitting that they kill each wolf that ends up dead. Thirty/fifty/a hundred people admitting that they are the one that killed each wolf. Wyoming guys admitting that they killed that wolf in Michigan, and New Yorkers admitting they killed that wolf in Oregon.
It's not the wolves that are the problem... it's the people that think your cattle are worthless and your way of life is negotia

I am taking the 5th and will go with my right to remain silent.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I'm kind of surprised that the livestock owners don't admit they kill wolves...
Every stinkin' one of every person owning cows admitting that they kill each wolf that ends up dead. Thirty/fifty/a hundred people admitting that they are the one that killed each wolf. Wyoming guys admitting that they killed that wolf in Michigan, and New Yorkers admitting they killed that wolf in Oregon.
It's not the wolves that are the problem... it's the people that think your cattle are worthless and your way of life is negotiable.

Find 30/50/100 people that are willing to be thourghly investigated by some gov't folks that got nothing better to do and maybe it would work. But most people don't want to give those agencies a reason to look into anything they are doing.

Falsely admit to killing a wolf to distract them, and get found guilt of a tax violation, manure pollution, digging an unpermitted pond, or who knows what else. And then being under future scrutiny for things.

The vast majority of the population try to fly under the radar and are perfectly happy when their name never comes across some law enforcement or other gov't agencies desk.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Here the county has a bounty on wolves and coyotes, so much per animal during the winter season. Some areas within the county have more problems then others with wolves.
We can take out predators throughout the whole year if they threaten our livestock. That includes stray dogs being a menace to the herd.
Can't imagine what farmers in Europe have to go through now since the wolf has been re-introduced to the wild and is wreaking havoc in livestock. Big public outcry for 'little wild wolfie' when the 'bad' farmer wants his hide for killing his animals. It's ridiculous.

 

[Travlr]

Find 30/50/100 people that are willing to be thourghly investigated by some gov't folks that got nothing better to do and maybe it would work. But most people don't want to give those agencies a reason to look into anything they are doing.

Falsely admit to killing a wolf to distract them, and get found guilt of a tax violation, manure pollution, digging an unpermitted pond, or who knows what else. And then being under future scrutiny for things.

The vast majority of the population try to fly under the radar and are perfectly happy when their name never comes across some law enforcement or other gov't agencies desk.

And this from people claiming to be freedom loving and value the rights afforded by our Constitution. You don't see Woke people backing down from the government when they feel they need to make their voices heard. If you guys are that scared... do it anonymously. Write a letter admitting your guilt and don't sign it.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

And this from people claiming to be freedom loving and value the rights afforded by our Constitution. You don't see Woke people backing down from the government when they feel they need to make their voices heard. If you guys are that scared... do it anonymously. Write a letter admitting your guilt and don't sign it.

So if I go shoot one your willing at admit guilt for me? Sounds good let me go get the .243 loaded up.

An anonymous letter would be as useful as used TP.

I haven't seen "woke people" admitting to federal crimes they didn't commit. Then again I dont watch the news so I must be outa the loop.

 

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[Travlr]

So if I go shoot one your willing at admit guilt for me? Sounds good let me go get the .243 loaded up.

An anonymous letter would be as useful as used TP.

I haven't seen "woke people" admitting to federal crimes they didn't commit. Then again I dont watch the news so I must be outa the loop.

I've never been one to back down from doing what's right if it involves my family, my sense of right and wrong, or a cause I believe in. I'm not one to lie... but I believe there are lies that serve a higher purpose. If you guys would band together and do something about the wolves you claim are killing your livestock, working as a group, I'd be there for you. But no, I won't hang myself with my own rope for people that refuse to do what is necessary to protect their own way of living.
The only thing that will make this problem go away is to act together.

 

[Dave]

I have got to deal with the federal fish and wildlife people before. A big pass on my part. Back during the spotted owl stuff I was one of 9 timber faller who had 2 feds show up at my house about some spotted owls that were rumored to be on a job. The 9 of us were spread out over 3 counties. They were coordinated and arrived at all of our houses at the same time on a Saturday. About half of these guy had never even been on that job. I prefer to deal with issues the way the mafia did. In secret with no evidence that points to me.
Here the wolves are no longer listed as a federal endangered species. Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming have open seasons on them. From studies the kills are just a portion of the lose they cause. Lower weaning weights and open cows probably cost ranchers more. It is just easier to point a finger at cattle killed by the wolves.
Farmers and ranchers have never been able to organize. If they could they do have the ultimate bargaining chip. If customers support XXX sorry but we aren't going to sell you any food. How quick would that change peoples mind?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

You will never get people to band together to falsely confess to a federal crime.

The way to go about changing things is working towards getting their federal protected status removed. Which is a lengthy process and takes more than 30/50/100 cattlemen writing letters. It's being lobbied for but the resistance is strong.

You say "refusing to do what is necessary". Well what is necessary is to get them de-listed (allowing legal lethal control to be returned to the citizens) and one sure fire way to insure that NEVER happens is to go breaking the law and shooting them. Because during the last round of federal hearings about de-listing when illegal poaching/killing was mentioned that was a reason to keep them listed in the Great Lakes region.

 

[Travlr]

You will never get people to band together to falsely confess to a federal crime.

The way to go about changing things is working towards getting their federal protected status removed. Which is a lengthy process and takes more than 30/50/100 cattlemen writing letters. It's being lobbied for but the resistance is strong.

You say "refusing to do what is necessary". Well what is necessary is to get them de-listed (allowing legal lethal control to be returned to the citizens) and one sure fire way to insure that NEVER happens is to go breaking the law and shooting them. Because during the last round of federal hearings about de-listing when illegal poaching/killing was mentioned that was a reason to keep them listed in the Great Lakes region.

The point being... that the feds don't like putting a lot of innocent people in jail and making the news for a cause, even if all the urban folks are supporting the wolves.
It's also too bad food producers can't restrict their product. When hamburger reaches $10 maybe we could all start a campaign to blame the wolves...

 

[Ky hills]

Like others have said, it's hard to get people to work together on anything.
An agriculture teacher/county extension agent once said in regards to the subject of farmers working together to work towards better prices for their products, he said if farmers could get along and work with others they probably wouldn't be farmers.
Hard to find people that are willing to do anything for somebody else and especially so if it might cause them an ounce of problem.
I've seen too many times in our area that talk is cheap, and you would not really want to put much dependence on anybody to back you up on anything.
People will double cross or under cut you all the while making you think they are going to back you up or help you.
When my wife first came here and took a job, she was outspoken and several people talked with her and convinced her to be the spokesperson to relay their collective concerns and thoughts on some things. They had her back right up until they didn't, she took the fall and they shunned her afterwards like they had nothing at all to do with anything.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

The point being... that the feds don't like putting a lot of innocent people in jail and making the news for a cause,

Just because 30/50/100 cattlemen confess doesn't mean anyone would end up in jail or on the news. In a scenario where multiple people confessed without other evidence I'd bet nothing would come of it. But you could rest assured at a de-listing hearing on capital hill it would be brought up by the wolf lovers at how the farmers are just itching to make them extinct again (as evident by the killing and subsequent multiple confessions of guilt) and de-listing would once again go nowhere.