Why wean calves?

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Hpacres440p

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It is the same at all of the auctions I have been watching: Midwest, south east, west coast, Canada. It isn't so much that other calves are discounted, as it is that black fetches a premium. But yes, red, white, spotted etc., don't bring as much down here as in other parts. And having Brahma influence actually helps down here. In South Ga and Fla, a Brangus of the same weight will bring as much or more than an Angus. A Braford cow will for sure bring more by the head than a Herford. You can't give a Charolais, Simmental, or red Angus, but further down south a Brahma x Charolais, or BR x Simm or Br x red Angus, cow will sell very well.
What about Brahma x steers? Cows and heifers I get, I would figure the steers would take a hit though.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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TC - If you have a 1st calf heifer (2 yr old) that raises a pizz poor calf, and she is a phenotypical and genotypical good replacement, I will give her a 2nd chance. Maybe the calf got sick early on and I didn't catch it?? maybe she will do better.
If you have a mature cow and she raises a dink but never did before - no, I would not cull her. I have way too much time and money into replacement females (we all do - commercial or purebred). Getting another calf out of her is financially to my benefit.
But, there is no wey in he!! I would keep a dink raising cow and wean the calf early to get better growth out of the calf. My cows don't work hard enough evidently, because they stay fat and sassy. I probably could leave my calves on an extra month, but it does not FIT my management program (timing).
 

callmefence

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TC - If you have a 1st calf heifer (2 yr old) that raises a pizz poor calf, and she is a phenotypical and genotypical good replacement, I will give her a 2nd chance. Maybe the calf got sick early on and I didn't catch it?? maybe she will do better.
If you have a mature cow and she raises a dink but never did before - no, I would not cull her. I have way too much time and money into replacement females (we all do - commercial or purebred). Getting another calf out of her is financially to my benefit.
But, there is no wey in he!! I would keep a dink raising cow and wean the calf early to get better growth out of the calf. My cows don't work hard enough evidently, because they stay fat and sassy. I probably could leave my calves on an extra month, but it does not FIT my management program (timing).
Wouldn't we rather have a less than perfect cow that weans heavy healthy calf than a perfect in every visual way cow that produces a dink???
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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Wouldn't we rather have a less than perfect cow that weans heavy healthy calf than a perfect in every visual way cow that produces a dink???
Absolutely, doesn't make any difference if she looks great - if she doesn't produce a money making calf - cow is a cull. In my case - weight isn't as important in the calf as overall package of quality - salability.
But, bottom line - calves have to make money to pay for the year's cost of the dam - in all operations.
 

J Hoy

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There is a difference in dinks and a cow that just raises small calves. If you use percentage of mom's weight as a measuring stick, the weaned calf may weigh 500 lbs but be at 55% of the small cows weight. Not bad. True dinks are the ones out of 1200 lb calves that weigh 350 lbs at weaning. They are usually short in statue, have a rough coat and a pot belly. If anyone wants to buy one, I have two for sale.

True dinks are a one off for me. A vet once told me that sometimes the genes from the bull and cow just don't mesh together right. Sometimes you have a dead calf, sometimes you have a dink. If its a young cow, she gets to to stay. A $400 calf is better than nothing. If its a cow older than 8, than we have to look a little closer. This is when good records help.
Has anyone considered that some newborns are more severely affected by exposure to pesticides on the foliage and in the surface water that kills their gut bacteria so they can't digest what they eat efficiently? Also, some calves are born with an underbite and can't suckle as well and can't graze efficiently when they begin eating grass. A study on white-tailed deer in South Dakota showed that an insecticide that was supposed to not be harmful to vertebrates caused weak fawns with birth defects, especially underdeveloped facial bones and reproductive malformations. It also caused mortality to some adult females and some of the fawns. Exposure also caused both adult females and fawns to have less vigor and energy. Deer were tested in areas far from where Imidacloprid was applied and they still had dangerously high levels of Imidacloprid in their spleens. Since Imidacloprid appears to be falling on foliage, including grass and alfalfa cut for hay and it is used on grain crops used for livestock feed, how are cattle not being affected similarly. The description of weaker, smaller calves with pot bellies that do not grow normally describes what happened to study animals exposed to pesticides, especially Imidacloprid and even worse effects were found when animals were simultaneously exposed to Imidacloprid and the glyphosate in Glyphosate Based Herbicides, which worked synergistically to be 1000 time more damaging and deadly than DDT was. I think some of you are being very unfair to some of your cows. It isn't their fault that during fetal development their calf gets a big hit of pesticides that come in to your area in certain weather fronts. How damaging the exposure is depends on what is happening with the fetus's stage of development when the exposure happens.
Around 3 calves per 100 cows have the weakness and inability to get up and suckle symptoms. Everyone of the beef or dairy calves with those symptoms, live or dead, that was able to examine when I was doing studies on ruminants, had underdeveloped upper facial bones resulting in an underbite. By the way, the problems caused by pesticide exposure are epigenetic in nature and have nothing to do with the genes of the parents.
 

Hpacres440p

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Has anyone considered that some newborns are more severely affected by exposure to pesticides on the foliage and in the surface water that kills their gut bacteria so they can't digest what they eat efficiently? Also, some calves are born with an underbite and can't suckle as well and can't graze efficiently when they begin eating grass. A study on white-tailed deer in South Dakota showed that an insecticide that was supposed to not be harmful to vertebrates caused weak fawns with birth defects, especially underdeveloped facial bones and reproductive malformations. It also caused mortality to some adult females and some of the fawns. Exposure also caused both adult females and fawns to have less vigor and energy. Deer were tested in areas far from where Imidacloprid was applied and they still had dangerously high levels of Imidacloprid in their spleens. Since Imidacloprid appears to be falling on foliage, including grass and alfalfa cut for hay and it is used on grain crops used for livestock feed, how are cattle not being affected similarly. The description of weaker, smaller calves with pot bellies that do not grow normally describes what happened to study animals exposed to pesticides, especially Imidacloprid and even worse effects were found when animals were simultaneously exposed to Imidacloprid and the glyphosate in Glyphosate Based Herbicides, which worked synergistically to be 1000 time more damaging and deadly than DDT was. I think some of you are being very unfair to some of your cows. It isn't their fault that during fetal development their calf gets a big hit of pesticides that come in to your area in certain weather fronts. How damaging the exposure is depends on what is happening with the fetus's stage of development when the exposure happens.
Around 3 calves per 100 cows have the weakness and inability to get up and suckle symptoms. Everyone of the beef or dairy calves with those symptoms, live or dead, that was able to examine when I was doing studies on ruminants, had underdeveloped upper facial bones resulting in an underbite. By the way, the problems caused by pesticide exposure are epigenetic in nature and have nothing to do with the genes of the parents.
When 3/100 in the same environment are poorly developed, there is something genetically that prevents them from overcoming environmental factors. Cull.
 

J+ Cattle

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A $400 calf is better than nothing.
I agree, I would rather have a live dink as a dead calf, but I do expect more from my cows than a $400 calf. (I just don't always get what I expect)
I remember from years past there was a forum member that had a footer message that read "Culling solves most of your problems" or something to that effect. I wish I could remember who that was, but I consider it to be a wise piece of advice.
 

Warren Allison

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What about Brahma x steers? Cows and heifers I get, I would figure the steers would take a hit though.
You are correct. Down here, Braford steers, Charbray steers, red angus x Brahma steers, Beefmaster, Gert steers etc, will bring about what a Hereford, red Angus or Charolais steer will. 10-30 cents a pound less than a black one will. of the same size and quality.
 

littletom

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Has anyone considered that some newborns are more severely affected by exposure to pesticides on the foliage and in the surface water that kills their gut bacteria so they can't digest what they eat efficiently? Also, some calves are born with an underbite and can't suckle as well and can't graze efficiently when they begin eating grass. A study on white-tailed deer in South Dakota showed that an insecticide that was supposed to not be harmful to vertebrates caused weak fawns with birth defects, especially underdeveloped facial bones and reproductive malformations. It also caused mortality to some adult females and some of the fawns. Exposure also caused both adult females and fawns to have less vigor and energy. Deer were tested in areas far from where Imidacloprid was applied and they still had dangerously high levels of Imidacloprid in their spleens. Since Imidacloprid appears to be falling on foliage, including grass and alfalfa cut for hay and it is used on grain crops used for livestock feed, how are cattle not being affected similarly. The description of weaker, smaller calves with pot bellies that do not grow normally describes what happened to study animals exposed to pesticides, especially Imidacloprid and even worse effects were found when animals were simultaneously exposed to Imidacloprid and the glyphosate in Glyphosate Based Herbicides, which worked synergistically to be 1000 time more damaging and deadly than DDT was. I think some of you are being very unfair to some of your cows. It isn't their fault that during fetal development their calf gets a big hit of pesticides that come in to your area in certain weather fronts. How damaging the exposure is depends on what is happening with the fetus's stage of development when the exposure happens.
Around 3 calves per 100 cows have the weakness and inability to get up and suckle symptoms. Everyone of the beef or dairy calves with those symptoms, live or dead, that was able to examine when I was doing studies on ruminants, had underdeveloped upper facial bones resulting in an underbite. By the way, the problems caused by pesticide exposure are epigenetic in nature and have nothing to do with the genes of the parents.
We don't have any round up ready pastures or hay cows don't graze soybeans might be different your area.
 

littletom

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So what i did weaned 81 calves selling them Jan. 3 in weaned sale will let you know how works out. Bought 65 unweaned steers in oct. sold them on video last week. I am glad those guys didnt wean i made more than they did.
 

MurraysMutts

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Weather patterns can and will bring unwanted pesticides and other crap that none of us want or use in our pastures.
Usually in the form of rain or wind.

I THINK that's what @J Hoy is getting at.

Makes a valid point in overuse/abuse of pesticides and herbicides.

Could also explain some of these dinky calves for some unknown reason.

Could also just be a crappy ol cow....
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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If pesticides/herbicides were affecting growth of calves - ALL the calves would be affected, so you wouldn't have a dink - they would ALL be dinks - unless you have each pair in a different paddock. Yes, some things can affect individuals differently, but this guy is over the top on his pesticides/herbicides mission.
 

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