Why not Gelbviehs?

[MoonDiskGelbvieh]

Good morning all,
I have been a lurker on here for quite a while now and have rarely posted. But I wanted to post now and get some opinions on the gelbvieh breed. I just started with the breed about 3 years ago and have rapidly become addicted to them. But I have noticed on many other discussion boards they get a bad response. I will never get rid of them, but could some of you folks clue me into why Gelbviehs seem to not be in favor with many people. I have also included pictures of two of this years calves. Please feel free to critque them all you want, I am open to any and all opinions. The black is a late January bull, and the red is a mid June heifer.
Neal Burgoyne
Moon Disk Farm
New York

 

[Rustler9]

I didn't know that they got a bad rap. I'm not a Gelbvieh breeder but my father has used a Gelbvieh bull for the last four years on his Beefmaster, Beefalo and Charolais herd and has had great results. He 's used a black bull and has turned the majority of his calves black and reduced the amount of ear on them. They have grown like wild fire and have brought top dollar at the sale barn. I raise registered Texas Longhorn cattle but have considered getting some commercial Longhorn cows and putting a black Gelbvieh bull on them for some sale barn calves. From what I've seen I like them.

 

[Sugar Creek]

I have a neighbor that has had Gelbviah cattle for years. He sells commercial bulls and has a waiting list almost all the time. I bought one a few years ago to breed to some Shorthorn cross cows and was very pleased. His calves were docile, thick, deep, and weighed real good for their height (mostly red) I still have a roan cow by this Gelbviah bull and she is a good one.

I sold the bull to another neighbor and he kept it several years. I have watched his herd turn redder looking across the hollow over time and at least to me: the maternal and thickness qualities of his herd were improved by that bull.

 

[frenchie]

but could some of you folks clue me into why Gelbviehs seem to not be in favor with many people.

We have had several Gelbvieh bulls, most have been fault free.

We did however buy 2 bulls from one breeder, that threw calves that were very slow to get up and nurse.

I have talked to a few other people,that had the same problem.With bulls from the same breeder.I suspect it could be bloodline related.

Gelbvieh works well over Hereford or Angus cows.

 

[Frankie]

Pretty babies. I've wondered the same thing about Gelbvieh. They have a strong Association, yet I see very few of them in my area. The Noble Foundation used them to create their "Noble Line" cattle, a three way cross of Brahman, Gelbvieh, Angus and they got hit with a "bad disposition" reputation. Some of the cooperators called them "German Limousin". Maybe it was just the particular line they used for their program, but with their strong breed association, I'm always surprised to see that they don't seem to be well received at bull sales that I've attended.

 

[CopeMan]

Does this Noble Foundation and these cattle still exist?

 

[Frankie]

Does this Noble Foundation and these cattle still exist?

Oh, yes, the Noble Foundation is alive and well at http://www.noble.org

I don't know about the breed. They set up a breed association and created EPDs, but then turned it over to "cooperators" to carry on. They were feeding the bulls at the Foundation and having a bull sale, but I haven't heard about a sale in a couple or three years. You might check their website and see if there are any references. I think their "Cattlelog" is online, too. There might be some Noble Line cattle for sale there, if you're interested.

 

[frenchie]

Frankie..We never had any temperment problems with Gelbveih..We did with the Limos we had.

 

[LegacyBreeder]

We've looked into Gelbviehs in the past. There's actually a good number of breeders in our area who either run them or swear by the bulls. The only problem we've had in trying to pick the right bull is that most of the ones we've seen are sway-backed. Probably just the breeder's particular line of genetics, though.

 

[Chuckie]

I have been entertaining the idea of purchasing a Gelbvieh cow to cross with our Angus bull. I've not read any thing negative about the breed, there just aren't many around here.

 

[jcarkie]

i have several cows that are 7/8's and they are good mamas. good cows raise big calves. the calf in my avatar's mom is 3/4's

 

[Brandonm2]

Good morning all,
I have been a lurker on here for quite a while now and have rarely posted. But I wanted to post now and get some opinions on the gelbvieh breed. I just started with the breed about 3 years ago and have rapidly become addicted to them. But I have noticed on many other discussion boards they get a bad response. I will never get rid of them, but could some of you folks clue me into why Gelbviehs seem to not be in favor with many people. I have also included pictures of two of this years calves. Please feel free to critque them all you want, I am open to any and all opinions. The black is a late January bull, and the red is a mid June heifer.
Neal Burgoyne
Moon Disk Farm
New York

I think the Gelbviehs just came at a bad time. In the 70s and 80s it seemed like a new breed was in vogue every 3-5 years (at least here in the South). A lot of people had calving problems with the first Charolais, then they had disposition and fertility problems with the Limousin's, the first Simmental's females were too big framed for many commercial cattlemen. Then came the Gelbvieh and a lot of people pigeonholed the Gelbvieh as having the birth weight of the Charolais, the attitude problem of the Limmie, and the too big frame of the Simmie. I really think if the Gelbveh had come on when the Charolais did that they would be the number 3 breed today.

I like the modern Gelbvieh a lot more than some of the 8-9 frame score Gelbviehs we were seeing in 1990. I might be too old school. I prefer a British cross cow and when I use a Continental I like the Gelbvieh, Simmental, or the Charolais as a terminal sire on those mature cows. IF I was going to have a more aggressive 3 breed cross cow it probably WOULD be Gelbvieh x Hereford x Angus since Gelbvieh adds significant lean meat yield to most baldies and some milk and frame. Just breed functional cattle that bring something too the table and I think you will be fine with Gelbviehs.

 

[dun]

In this area there just aren;t any really quality Glebvieh herds to slect from but there are a good number of Simmenthal. Part of that I think is just the general disinterest in Gelbviehs.
We looked into them when we wanted to add some continental influence. We spent a lot of time at registered Gelbvieh sales and visiting herds in southern MO and got a couple of F1's (now called balancers). One twinned her first year and turned into a nut case shortly before we weaned her calves, 843 lbs combined weaning weight for a mixed sex set of twins. The other is still with us and will be for a long while. One of her daughters is a bred yearling we're keeping. Although Gelbviehs have made a point to select for better udders, I still saw way too many balloon teats and raggy udders. They also (around here anyway) haven;t done nearly as much to mitigate frame size as Simmenthals. I've alwasy classified them as a solid colored Simmenthal. Selecting some of the milk out of them seems to be a problem, but crossed with moderate milking Red Angus they do very well. If I could find reliable carcass data on marbeling and tenderness I'ld be more tempted to use them.

dun

 

[polledbull]

I think you have mistaken , I dont think that the Gelbvieh bulls get all that bad of rap. In fact I think most people are fairly well pleased with thier Gelbvieh bulls.I have however heard a few people that had bought a few heifers or pairs complain that they had a hard time keeping them in condition. They were very good milkers i remember one herd . He bought them from a breeder as a group, he was probably feeding every cow on the farm everyday, and when he got them they went out to pasture and only got hay. Now that dont make them bad cattle . I think they just will milk thier selves way down if they are not monitered and given good pasture and hay. Im just stating this case as I was told and remember .

 

[itsawayoflife]

Gelbvieh cattle, IMHO are excellent cattle. Especially when used on british breed cows. They have definitely produced some very functional cattle in recent years. great udders, lots of milk (maybe too much in certain lines or environments). One thing alot of people forget (myself included in the past) is that alot of cattle are bred for the showring and managed in such a way that they cannot thrive or sometimes even survive in a commercial or "real world" environment. Those cattle have their place on tanbark beside a 4-H-er or a wealthy man, but alot of times they have a hard time making it on their own. Gelbvieh cattle definitely have a place in our industry's future, and all this coming from someone that runs Simmy bulls! Now for my opinion on the calves:
I will start with the heifer by saying she has a nice front end. smooth through the shoulders and decent neck extension that extra leather tells me she should be an easy keeper in the future. However, behind the shoulders she begins to dissapoint me. She lacks the overall volume and depth of rib and flank that I like to see in a brood cow. She could use alot more thickness in her hind quarters. she could use a slightly higher tailhead set and be a little more level from hooks to pins. She seems to be just a touch cow hocked but that could be an illusion.
The bull:
Once again, very nice front end lots of extension and looks very smooth through the shoulder, but beyond that he leaves me wanting. He needs a stronger top alot more volume and rib, a straighter hip, deeper flank a world more thickness. Please remember that these are my opinions, no matter what breed it would be. The bottom line is if the cattle work for you and your customers don't change a thing.

 

[Dean the hobby farmer]

Nice looking calves I see nothing wrong with gelbveihs there is not too many around here in Nova Scotia . There is guy I was talking to this summer he has one I planning on going to take look at him and his calves,could be good cross for my shorthorn cross cows.Thanks Dean :lol:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Itsawayoflife is quite acurate with his/her description of the calves. The heifer is better than the bull, showing more depth & flank. They look very similar to Gelvieh cattle in my area, needing more muscling in the rear quarters, but have a better front end than many.
Actually, the Gelvieh breed had the same genetic base as the Simmental over in Europe. When the Simmental Assn. was started, they chose different "strains" like Fleckvieh, Pie Rouge, Montbeliards, Abondance & Pezzata Rosa. They were considered "Simmentals" here in America. The forefathers - for whatever reason chose NOT to accept Gelbvieh as a Simmental. I was always told it was because of disposition & udder quality.
Anyway, they came over as their own breed. At first, I thought, "we may be sorry we didn't include them as Simmentals, because now they are our competition as a maternal breed". Well, after all these years, they just don't have the genetic base here to give you much to pick from - meaning "bull power" through AI. I think there are some really good ones out there, just not enough of them.
If you have a good temperament herd and you're happy with them, just keep picking bulls to meet your desires for your herd.
Looks like you have a good start on the halter breaking!!
Good luck.

 

[Australian Cattleman]

Gelbviehs cross well with Brahmans,South Devons (we have used them with both these breeds) I have also seen them crossed with Hereford and of course Angus. Can't really see the sense in crossing them with Angus. Can't see much benefit as opposed to some of the other breeds that I've mentioned.
Colin

 

[MoonDiskGelbvieh]

Thank you all for your opinions, thoughts, and ideas. When I started with them I was unable to find any purebreds and still don't own a purebred. I have been slowly breeding up using quality semen on crossbred cows. But my luck on purebreds is about to change, a breeder near me who has never been willing to sell any is getting out of the gelbvieh business so I will pick up 2-3 heifers from him. As far as I could tell from looking through the NY Cattleman's Directory there are only about 5 farms in the state using Gelbvieh genetics. Every time I am at a show I end up spending more time explaining a glebvieh than I do anything else. That is why I just put together and informational poster and had the Gelbvieh Assoc send me some promo literature so I have it available when I am showing in Vermont next weekend. We don't so a lot of showing but we do a few local county fairs just to get our names out there and pick up some more customers for our freezer trade. We don;t make money at a show but we tend to break even so it works out as cheap advertising.

Now a little more about the calves. The heifer is a Tabasco daughter out of a Gelb X Limousin cow. In the picture she was only about seven weeks old so I am hoping she will get some more depth. Her yearling sister is a very wide and deep heifer but is standing on a very short set of legs. She is only about 3.7-3.9 frame score. That is partially because her sire is an old style hereford(only because her dam wouldn;t settle AI so she went in with the neighbor's bull.) The bull is out of a HerefordxHolstein heifer so that explains alot of his issues. He is not remaining as a bull anyways, we kept him intact to see if he was going to amount to something that one of the dairy herds in the area would be interested in using as a heifer bull. But so far no interest so after the Champlain Valley Expo he will come home and become a steer. The first show he went to with us this year the judge told me that she would like to see him longer bodied, as far as I am concerned he is planty long enough. After the show I jokingly told her that if he got any longer he would be a limousine.

In a few minutes I will put up a picture of my gelb/lim cow and see what you all think of her also.
Neal

 

[Anonymous]

I have 40 GelbviehX Angus cross females and 1 Salers show heifer who is a grand champion female. I have pics of her if anyone would like to see her. At the present time I am using a salers bull on the Gelbvieh X Angus cross balancers. We are seeing weaning weights of 650-750 pounds off bermuda grass and cotton seed and soybean meal. They are really coming on. They are getting their growth from the Salers bull. Our average birth weights are about 65 pounds. The Gelbvieh by angus cross females are very docile as is the salers female and bull we have. All the females in our program have an abundant supply of milk and good beef conformation. The salers female I have weighed in at 1100 at 1 year of age. At the present time she is at 1450 she will be 2 in january and calve in january as well. The gelbvieh also seem to make the females mature quicker and breed back quicker as well. All in all I am very satisified and in fact swear by the balancers and salers. This three way cross seems to work very well. They work well in really hot weather which it gets hoooooooooot here in summer and work well in cold weather. It gets really coooooooooold here in winter. I can tell you this. This summer has been very hard to control flies. I went out 2 weeks ago and the cows had flies all over them. I want you to know that there was not a runny eye in the whole lot. That says alot about the toughness of these cattle. Again I swear by them and would not use anything else. I do plan however on eventually using these balancer females as donor cows and use the eggs and sperm from a salers bull to make me a registered salers herd.