why do we feed supplement ?

[callmefence]

Standing grass does not have to have good protein levels to have feed value....that's why you supplement it.

 

[callmefence]

Took some quick pictures of the field fixing to get cows turned on it. Frost killed haygrazer with oats notilled in. The tall grass in the background is bluestem and Kline. When they finish here there is another similar for them.
Depending on weather they will be rotated back and forth or maybe put on hay and the oats saved for haying. IDK but they certainly won't be getting fed anything.

 

[BFE]

I've always heard the worst grass is better than the best hay. In my experience it's true. They'll come through winter better grazing than standing around a hay ring.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I've always heard the worst grass is better than the best hay. In my experience it's true. They'll come through winter better grazing than standing around a hay ring.

So someone blew smoke about grass with 5% protein is better than hay with 12%. Last I checked hay was grass as well. All the time the cow is walking off pounds trying to fill a holler belly on low quality forage.

We used to not feed a bale of hay back in the 60's and 70's and most cows did survive the winters. BCS suffered conception rates were horrible.
It took 15 or so of those back forty cows to make 10 of the beef animals today. We didn't vaccinate either because there weren't any, good chance over half your cows weren't producing due to bangs or lepto.
Big difference in owning cattle and beef production.

 

[callmefence]

I've always heard the worst grass is better than the best hay. In my experience it's true. They'll come through winter better grazing than standing around a hay ring.

So someone blew smoke about grass with 5% protein is better than hay with 12%. Last I checked hay was grass as well. All the time the cow is walking off pounds trying to fill a holler belly on low quality forage.

We used to not feed a bale of hay back in the 60's and 70's and most cows did survive the winters. BCS suffered conception rates were horrible.
It took 15 or so of those back forty cows to make 10 of the beef animals today. We didn't vaccinate either because there weren't any, good chance over half your cows weren't producing due to bangs or lepto.
Big difference in owning cattle and beef production.

So you roll up your grass. Stack and store it. Pull it out and. Feed it every day
So your cows don't have to walk...you go ahead. I'll pass on the welfare cattle

 

[Caustic Burno]

Fence there is a need for back forty cattle at the sale barn, they need something for dog food. Supplemented on 900 dollar a ton tubs. No thanks.

 

[Lucky]

The easiest way to tell if cows needs a supplement is too look at their poop. Best thing about the poop study is that it works any time of year and in any conditions. Early spring might fool you but generally just look at the poop.

 

[callmefence]

Fence there is a need for back forty cattle at the sale barn, they need something for dog food. Supplemented on 900 dollar a ton tubs. No thanks.

I've got nothing liking tubs or hay. I've shown my pasture. It and the calves in my pasture will out shine yours. Why don't you quit making a fool of yourself.
The topic of this thread is supplementing standing grass. See if you can't find your way out of the weeds

 

[alisonb]

The topic of this thread is supplementing standing grass.

Don't see where OP mentions 'standing grass'???

 

[callmefence]

The topic of this thread is supplementing standing grass.

Don't see where OP mentions 'standing grass'???

With my hat in hand you are correct. I should have said the the topic of this conversation.
Meaning the ongoing conversation between four people which started around mid thread.

 

[mwj]

If you have to transport hay very far it gets expensive very quickly! In most situations where you need to supplement poor forage, there is not an abundance of ''good'' hay.

 

[Farmgirl]

The easiest way to tell if cows needs a supplement is too look at their poop. Best thing about the poop study is that it works any time of year and in any conditions. Early spring might fool you but generally just look at the poop.

Yep!

We have cows on a hay field now with Mix 30 out. Watching the poop and watching their grazing pattern tells you al lot. If they lay around in the sun and chew their cud and the poop isn't stacked up their doing good.

 

[rjbovine]

I agree I should have hay tested . Feeding the corn I'm ok with . I asking more about adding the 34% supplement to the corn . These are fall calving cows with calves on them . Also there isn't much pasture mostly dry lot. Keeping an eye on the poop is a good idea.Thanks rj

 

[BFE]

I've always heard the worst grass is better than the best hay. In my experience it's true. They'll come through winter better grazing than standing around a hay ring.

So someone blew smoke about grass with 5% protein is better than hay with 12%. Last I checked hay was grass as well. All the time the cow is walking off pounds trying to fill a holler belly on low quality forage.

We used to not feed a bale of hay back in the 60's and 70's and most cows did survive the winters. BCS suffered conception rates were horrible.
It took 15 or so of those back forty cows to make 10 of the beef animals today. We didn't vaccinate either because there weren't any, good chance over half your cows weren't producing due to bangs or lepto.
Big difference in owning cattle and beef production.

I did say my experience backs up what I have heard about the subject. Given sufficient standing grass (sorry I didn't specify down to the gnats azz on that), cows here do better finding it themselves than feeding them hay. I think our differences on this matter are probably due to differences in grass. I'm in the fescue belt, which makes for a good stockpiled forage. You are not in the fescue belt, so you have a different perspective. I'm not even including winter annuals like wheat and rye in my comment, which cows will also do better on than dry hay.

 

[BFE]

I agree I should have hay tested . Feeding the corn I'm ok with . I asking more about adding the 34% supplement to the corn . These are fall calving cows with calves on them . Also there isn't much pasture mostly dry lot. Keeping an eye on the poop is a good idea.Thanks rj

What county you in RJ?

 

[BFE]

I agree I should have hay tested . Feeding the corn I'm ok with . I asking more about adding the 34% supplement to the corn . These are fall calving cows with calves on them . Also there isn't much pasture mostly dry lot. Keeping an eye on the poop is a good idea.Thanks rj

This comment will get everyone fired up I'm sure. I have a friend who fattens all his calves, feeds them straight ground ear corn, no supplement. He says he can't tell a difference in the gain between having supplement and no supplement in the mix.
He's been doing this for 30-40 years.

 

[Bright Raven]

The topic of quality of standing forage needs to be defined based on location and management practices. Standing forage in this area (Kentucky) has high protein and total digestible nutrient (TDN) levels. It also depends to a great extent on how pastures are managed. My pastures are about 40 % clovers. I don't over graze and I keep them free of excess weeds.

The UK Extension office provides a hay testing service. The hay here has tested low over the last 3 years. It has been a function of bad hay making weather. I buy my hay from a hay farm. It runs 8 to 10 percent crude protein and the TDN is average. I know in this region, pasture forage will beat the locally grown hay in most cases. The problem here: 90 % of the producers over graze and over stock. My cows are still on pasture forage and they are all nursing calves since September.

 

[Farmgirl]

We are not located too far from Caustic so I'll take his viewpoint. Here we have lots of rain in the fall and winter and high humidity year-round. Seldom snows or freezes. We have had a frost already but many years we don't have frost until late November. With all the moisture, dead grass looses it nutrient value quickly. I think a lot of what is being debated is due to regional differences.

My :2cents:,
Farmgirl

 

[Bright Raven]

We are not located too far from Caustic so I'll take his viewpoint. Here we have lots of rain in the fall and winter and high humidity year-round. Seldom snows or freezes. We have had a frost already but many years we don't have frost until late November. With all the moisture, dead grass looses it nutrient value quickly. I think a lot of what is being debated is due to regional differences.

My :2cents:,
Farmgirl

That was my point. It is different regionally and even within the region dependent on management practices. When folks visit my farm, I don't have to point out the boundaries. The difference in pasture says it all.

But even here, when the grass gets weathered and stops growing, the nutrient levels drop significantly.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Location - location. What's good for you is not good for me.
I posted a windy post about LOOKING AT MANURE - poof - it is gone. Anyway, someone already said it and I concur. You can tell if your winter grass has enough protein by looking at their manure. You can tell if it has food value, by watching their body condition (don't let heavy winter hair coat fool you!!)
Even if I had enough land to stockpile grass, my cows wouldn't be able to eat it because of our heavy snowfall and the fact that it "packs" so the cattle cannot forage thru it.