WHY "COLORFUL" BEEF CATTLE?

[DOC HARRIS]

In the past 100 years - give or take a few - the various Beef Breed Associations have recorded certain individual animals within that respective breed in their "Herd Registry Books" by virtue of those animals possessing so-called 'superior genetic traits' for the purpose of enhancing those traits and characteristics in order to approach perfection and assist the Beef Producer in utilizing those genetics to realize a $Profit in their BUSINESS.

If we are willing to accept these as given facts - whether cow-calf operators wish to admit that they are true - or not - it seems to me that a certain percentage of Beef Producers are plunging impulsively in a frenzy to acquire "KALEIDOSCOPE CATTLE". If you accede that the above hypothesis is factual, then my question is: WHY? In the face of all the thought and effort and planning and programming and scientific evidence which has been done in striving for the development of a "BEEF" producing 'machine', if you will, WHY do we cast aside all of the achievements which have been provided for our use in breeding beef animals - play "Mix 'N Match" so as to eagerly anticipate what next year's calf crop will "look like!" :shock:

Can you say "Homozygous"? Why do we persist in "Spinning the Color Wheel" and trying to sell 'Cute" instead of 'BEEF'? :roll:

I imagine there will be some chaff flying in response to this thread.


As an addendum to this post I hasten to add - Homozygosity is a pre-requisite to "Heterosis" on BOTH sides of the pedigree. Heterosis is a pre-requisite to REAL success in Breeding beef cattle destined for the feedlot and the Dining Room table.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Doc, some good points.

A comment (not nesessarily in reply to your comment ;-) )

All pros & cons aside with any livestock breeding, raising, selling activity, each individual producer has his/her goals and program in mind. And, as we well know, just because one person or ranch is raising a given type of animal for any given purpose, doesn't make THAT person any LESS of a worthwhile individual or program. There is room for all of us in the global effort with livestock.

Diversity is what makes the world interesting. Granted, we need quality tender beef on the dinner table. That's what the large producers, feedlots, and others are doing for us. Not everyone is into that market or game.

It would be great if all of the producers of different breeds of livestock and different sizes of operations would live and let live and respect each other's efforts for what they are doings. However...we do not live in a perfect, peace-loving world...

 

[Caustic Burno]

Color has nothing to do with it.
It is about the most efficient breed in your region that can convert grass into pounds of beef to maximize ROCE( return on capital employed).
Every breed brings something to the table it comes down to are you smart enough to run the right breed.

 

[jerry27150]

doc. what are you saying here? you think every one should stay with a single breed & not crossbreed. crossing has been proven to make you more money than anything. each farm has to have cattle that do well on it & all farms are different. as far as tender beef, they have proved that any breed can furnish this for the public. you will find most prefer to go with angus because of their extensive propaganda & not pay any attention to how many more lbs of beef some other breeds will produce from the same number of cows. most just prefer to go with the crowd. also if you don't like the color of your cows, why not change to one you do like. after all you are the one who has to look at them everyday. personally i have always been a rebel, so if every one goes black, i will naturally go with something else. yes i can say & spell homozygous. and regardless of breed every one looks forward to what their calves will look like next year. farmers always look for the next year to be better

 

[Farmhand]

Agree with all responses. Another question I would like to ask Doc is - what breed are we all suppose to be raising? I don't think I could raise the same cattle here in Iowa that they are raising in Texas. At least not as well as they do. Then also I think the markets would go to heck if there was only one breed. You have to enjoy what you do in order to do it well. If color adds to your enjoyment then I say go for it.

 

[J. T.]

I really don't think we're trying to sell "cute." And it does seem that the purebreds are all becoming black. I don't see the kaladioscope in the purebred animals. However, as commercial cattlemen are aware, heterosis is the best thing going and that results in calves of different colors. Most of the momma cows in this country are crossbred. When bred to a purebred bull, there can a variety of colors. Also, since cattle are raised in such differing climates in the US, our national cowherd will not be uniform in color or breeding. Southern commercial cattle will carry some Brahman breeding and cattle of the other regions will be British and Continental breeding. Therefore, our cattle herd will vary in color and breeding. Our goal, though, should be to produce a product that is acceptable to the consumer regardless of color. In the words of Beefmaster developer Tom Lasater, "The color of the hide doesn't matter when the T bone is on the platter."
J. T.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

It's the color and quality of the red meat that counts, and no hide color has exclusive rights to that. I'm personally proud that my breed is not turning black to follow a fad. Black Herefords, BTW, are not my breed.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I really don't think we're trying to sell "cute." And it does seem that the purebreds are all becoming black. I don't see the kaladioscope in the purebred animals. However, as commercial cattlemen are aware, heterosis is the best thing going and that results in calves of different colors. Most of the momma cows in this country are crossbred. When bred to a purebred bull, there can a variety of colors. Also, since cattle are raised in such differing climates in the US, our national cowherd will not be uniform in color or breeding. Southern commercial cattle will carry some Brahman breeding and cattle of the other regions will be British and Continental breeding. Therefore, our cattle herd will vary in color and breeding. Our goal, though, should be to produce a product that is acceptable to the consumer regardless of color. In the words of Beefmaster developer Tom Lasater, "The color of the hide doesn't matter when the T bone is on the platter."THIS IS A REPLY FROM DOC HARRIS. I GUESS I MESSED UP ON THE REPLY POST. SORRY ABOUT THAT.---"When I was an Ag Teacher in 1951 I knew Tom Lasater and visited his ranch near Colorado Springs with my entire class. We had long talks together relating to his development of the Beefmasters and I agreed with his philosophy at that time, and I agree even more so with it today! I think most of the responses to this thread misunderstood my approach to the subject. If yhou go back and read the original post again you will see that I did not mention ANY one breed and I did that deliberately. You should also read the addendum at the end of the post regarding Heterosis! Cross breeding has been proved to add an average of 100l# to the end live product, and I have expounded on cross breeding between British and Continental Beef Cattle since the mid 1960's, and to Brahman Cattle for the Southern States for the same period of time - actually since about 1947 for Brahman cross breeding! Lasater developed his Beefmasters using Hereford, Shorthorn, and Brahman breeding, and he was RUTHLESS in his culling program! And I agree with that. My philosophy in regards to Cross breeding is to select the VERY BEST Homozygous bull of whatever breed you desire - and then CROSS BREED with the VERY BEST Homozygous Female of ANOTHER BREED - whichever BREED you desire. NOW you have a solid BASE from which to plan matings. Keep replacement females of that F1 generation each year as your foundation cows are culled (for whatever reason -age, lack of fertility, whatever) and select your next bull for
whatever reasons you wish from another completely different breed as the original Foundation pair OR select a bull from one of the original breeds in your foundation plan. But in ALL breedings, use the most dominant genetics you can afford. Cross breeding -ABSOLUTELY! This plan of Heterosis breeding will result in some colorful animals, BUT - my point is - don't breed for Kaleidoscope colors only. Genotype is as important or more so than phenotype! I trust this clears up some misunderstandings.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

doc. what are you saying here? you think every one should stay with a single breed & not crossbreed. crossing has been proven to make you more money than anything. each farm has to have cattle that do well on it & all farms are different. as far as tender beef, they have proved that any breed can furnish this for the public. you will find most prefer to go with angus because of their extensive propaganda & not pay any attention to how many more lbs of beef some other breeds will produce from the same number of cows. most just prefer to go with the crowd. also if you don't like the color of your cows, why not change to one you do like. after all you are the one who has to look at them everyday. personally i have always been a rebel, so if every one goes black, i will naturally go with something else. yes i can say & spell homozygous. and regardless of breed every one looks forward to what their calves will look like next year. farmers always look for the next year to be better

Jerry - refer to my answer to J.T. That should relieve your mind that I am not losing it :lol: I guess that a lot of breeders misunderstand what I wrote - but my wife doesn't understand me either, so I am used to that! :lol: :lol:

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Agree with all responses. Another question I would like to ask Doc is - what breed are we all suppose to be raising? I don't think I could raise the same cattle here in Iowa that they are raising in Texas. At least not as well as they do. Then also I think the markets would go to heck if there was only one breed. You have to enjoy what you do in order to do it well. If color adds to your enjoyment then I say go for it.

FARMHAND - Refer to my response to J.T.

 

[Beefy]

why not? if color isnt important then what does it matter? certainly breeding FOR random colors only is not a good idea, nor breeding for any one trait and ignoring the others.

I think the quote JT threw in was just a general quote that happened to be by a breeder of cattle not selected for color. i dont think he was suggesting that beefmaster was necessarily the breed(s) in question.

 

[Angus Guy]

I am new to this forum so indulge my mistakes. Jerry makes the comment about angus propaganda which is not the CAB program is about. The angus breeders and their association have made the effort to add value to their product. This is called salesmanship. Instead of bashing this effort why not work harder at selling your breed as better and add value?

 

[J. T.]

OK Doc, I think I gotcha now. You're just saying we should have a definite breeding plan and not breed for differing colors. If people misunderstand you it's because you're a former Ag teacher. As a current Ag teacher, I get that a lot, too. Also, I was just using the Beefmaster as an example. I wasn't saying they're the breed of choice, although they ARE good cattle. It must've been a privilege to know Mr. Lasater and philosophize with him. I think he had about as good a grasp on the cow business of any cowman there ever was. BTW, I think it must've been wonderful to teach Ag back in the 50's and 60's when more kids had a farm background than they do now.
J. T.

 

[Sugar Creek]

I think we should appreciate the work breeders of offbeat and colorful cattle do. The market will reward those who breed for it with more standard colors and breeds. Meanwhile who knows when some genetics will be needed that is being preserved by the breeders of the rare and unusual breeds. One danger is that as they attempt to make them more acceptable to the market they will lose their unique qualities that made them useful in the past.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

OK Doc, I think I gotcha now. You're just saying we should have a definite breeding plan and not breed for differing colors. If people misunderstand you it's because you're a former Ag teacher. As a current Ag teacher, I get that a lot, too. Also, I was just using the Beefmaster as an example. I wasn't saying they're the breed of choice, although they ARE good cattle. It must've been a privilege to know Mr. Lasater and philosophize with him. I think he had about as good a grasp on the cow business of any cowman there ever was. BTW, I think it must've been wonderful to teach Ag back in the 50's and 60's when more kids had a farm background than they do now.
J. T.

J.T. - Hoo Raa! You do understand me! I was beginning to think that I had too many recessive genes! :shock: Tom Lasater was a fascinating man - I was somewhat like a sponge when we talked. I tried to soak up his very deep philosophy, and he had a way of expressing himself that was almost hypnotic! My teaching experience was a little different than most. I was teaching WWII Veterans in "On-The_Farm" Training Programs. I was a WWII Vet, but in my first class, EVERY one of my students was older than I was! Challenging situation. But, they realized that they NEEDED the information, and they had an eagerness for information that excited me as a teacher!! And there were no discipline problems.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I think the whole 'Black' thing is a matter of supply and demand. As a cow-calf producer, I get paid more for black hided animals because of what the end consumer wants. Black Angus have a branded program in Canada and the US. The consumer is looking for meat that is well marbled and they are willing to pay a little more for that product. The packer is willing to pay a bit more for Black animals because they suspect they may be Angus (w meat that marbles well). The Backgrounders and Finishers in the feedlots pay a bit more for black animals because they know the Packers will pay more so as a producer, it behooves me to raise black animals because I will get a bonus for them. Seems simple to me. I've got a certain number of cattle I can keep on my place so I might as well make as much money per animal as I can and if going black is what is selling right now, I guess that's what I gotta do.

 

[MY]

if going black is what is selling right now, I guess that's what I gotta do.

I see your point and I see the absolute fact of what you are saying at the sale barn, but I don't think this black cattle "fad" is going to last forever. The next "fad" that is going to pay us better money are those cattle that have EID eartags, coupled with some kind of documented management practices IMO, so I'd rather get on that bandwagon early rather than chase last decade's fad. It isn't going to matter if they're purple in a few years the way I see it, it's all going to be about regulatory compliance, and even before the EID's become mandatory there will be a premium placed on beef that can be traced back to the ranch of origin.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

if going black is what is selling right now, I guess that's what I gotta do.

I see your point and I see the absolute fact of what you are saying at the sale barn, but I don't think this black cattle "fad" is going to last forever. The next "fad" that is going to pay us better money are those cattle that have EID eartags, coupled with some kind of documented management practices IMO, so I'd rather get on that bandwagon early rather than chase last decade's fad. It isn't going to matter if they're purple in a few years the way I see it, it's all going to be about regulatory compliance, and even before the EID's become mandatory there will be a premium placed on beef that can be traced back to the ranch of origin.

MY, you have hit upon a very factual subject, and I think that you are absolutely correct. It is strange how a seemingly insignificant occurance can explode into a complete change of opinion and total management options! This is only the first snowball to roll down the hill into an avalanche of regulations, SOME of which will be necessary and ALL of which will change the way the Beef BUSINESS will be done. IMO - the early bird gets the worm. Do It Now! You'll HAVE to do it later.

 

[MY]

That's my thinking too Doc, and over the next several months I'm going to get my act together regarding the EID's. When the rest of the world gets on the bandwagon AFTER it becomes mandatory and everyone is chasing tags and playing catch up, I forsee a shortage of the ear tags worldwide, driving beef prices into unknown realms for those that are tagged. I don't care what business you're in; and we're in several, you MUST be forward thinking. You cannot chase the rest of the pack, you must lead the pack in order to be successful.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

That's my thinking too Doc, and over the next several months I'm going to get my act together regarding the EID's. When the rest of the world gets on the bandwagon AFTER it becomes mandatory and everyone is chasing tags and playing catch up, I forsee a shortage of the ear tags worldwide, driving beef prices into unknown realms for those that are tagged. I don't care what business you're in; and we're in several, you MUST be forward thinking. You cannot chase the rest of the pack, you must lead the pack in order to be successful.

The EID tags are already available in Canada and will be mandatory by 2007 so that is not going to be the next big fad up here because everybody will be doing it. We also have teamed this with age verification and Land Identification so that when that tag is read, you can trace that animal back to the farm of origin and tell exactly when it was born. I agree that the black thing is just a fad but unless you can see the next fad you might as well get on the bandwagon until this one peters out. Remember that the demand will come from the end-consumer of the product. If I was to guess with the aging population, I would say the demand might be for smaller cuts which means cattle may be headed back down in size. I've also heard guys say that Shorthorn could be the next fad because of its superior marbling while that speckled look is not available in the Continental breeds.