"Why Cattle Don't Make The Grade!"

[mtnman]

Well, it can't be just the color deal, BRG.

Black Angus is making more bulls now than ever, that is straight black, not Continental black, and it is still down in spite of more PURE BLACK ANGUS bulls than ever.

Besides, when we use Continentals on black angus cows, we get more CAB than with straight Angus, so the Continentals can actually help CAB certification.

Could it be, as Continental influence is going down, CAB is going down?

mtnman

 

[Brandonm2]

I think part of it is the EPDs and I LOVE having the EPDs; but if you chase growth numbers really hard.....particularly IF you are adding frame as well then you risk getting calves with a later maturing growth curve. IF you treat those growthy framier calves like you did calves 10 and 20 years ago or worse get them to the feedlot earlier I think it is a safe bet that you are going to decrease the percentage of the calves which grade Choice. I don't think there is an easy answer for this. Obviously you don't want to put big strapping 650 pound framy growthy weaners on grass for six months before they went to the feedlot like you used to do with short toady 450 lb weaners; but a framier calf with a later maturing growth curve is going to be less likely too grade Choice than an older, dinky, earlier maturing kind of calf. I think the decline in quality grade is a direct result of many of the improvements that we have made in the genetics of the cowherd and the only way out of this is too avoid single trait selection.

 

[MikeC]

The way around all these problems is to take a good British breed cow and put a good Continental bull on her. Or vice-versa.

Problem solved.

 

[BRG]

Brandonm2,

I don't really agree. Maybe my herd is the exception, but I purchase alot of our customers calves and feed all of our own out too, the majority are at a frame score of 6. We have stressed performance since we began and have never chased the carcass. This past year all of our cattle averaged 74.18% choice or higher with 1 pen doing extremely poor. If we would take this 1 pen out it would have been over 80% choice or higher. The majority of the cattle were straight Red Angus, some had 1/4 continental with a handful 1/2 continental. We have never gone after carcass much until this year we made sure the herdsires we bought had the REA and IMF we were looking for.

Again, I say it goes back to the genetics. We need to make sure we as seedstock producers are providing the best genetics possible.

 

[Brandonm2]

You must be doing SOMETHING right because everybody else is claiming that Percent Choice is slipping and as Mike and others like to point out....percent Angus in the herd has NEVER been higher. According to the March Angus Bulletin, Choice is ~50% of the total herd and getting a group of steers to 76% Choice or better is good enough to get you your own article (see pg 15). If you are doing 80% Choice and above, don't change a thing because that is waaayy up for across the board numbers (not just a penload of carcass contest calves).

I don't know conclusively if increasing carcass weights and decreasing slaughter age is related to decreasing quality grades or NOT. I am just throwing out an across the industry theory that ("I" think) makes some sense given the facts we know.

 

[MikeC]

Brandonm2 wrote:I don't know conclusively if increasing carcass weights and decreasing slaughter age is related to decreasing quality grades or NOT.

I suspect that it does play a part somehow with less marbling, but, I would rather have the younger, more tender meat than some of the older "Prime" ones I've eaten.

Until the USDA recognizes "Tenderness" in the quality grading standards, we'll be chasing our tails forever. And chasing the consumers also.

 

[BRG]

One of my theories is this, at least in the Red Angus, don't know about the black angus. Red Angus has been chasing a few bulls and 1 in particular is a small framed animal. I know that when you use small frames you are making weaning and kill weights smaller. Years ago light weights at weaning went into a background lot or onto grass. Now these 5 weight calves are going right into a lot and before long they are on a very hot ration. These cattle don't have time to put the frame on before they get fat and so the average feeder feeds them just like they feed eveything else and in turn the cattle get finished sooner. This can be a good thing, but in most cases the yield grades rise and now we have a higher % or yield grade 4's and 5's. This may not lower the % of choice but it will give you discounts for high yield grades.

 

[BRG]

Is their a link to read that article for the March Angus Bulletin.

 

[Brandonm2]

Is their a link to read that article for the March Angus Bulletin.

I don't know if the Angus people put their Magazine online or not. I have the old mailbox edition. The article on the high performance of the article on the Conklin's farm was titled "Simple Goals, Complex Route" pg 15. The 50% Choice figure was on pg 44 in the article: "Marketing for Black Ink" by Steve Suther ~about Angus premiums.

 

[Brandonm2]

One of my theories is this, at least in the Red Angus, don't know about the black angus. Red Angus has been chasing a few bulls and 1 in particular is a small framed animal. I know that when you use small frames you are making weaning and kill weights smaller. Years ago light weights at weaning went into a background lot or onto grass. Now these 5 weight calves are going right into a lot and before long they are on a very hot ration. These cattle don't have time to put the frame on before they get fat and so the average feeder feeds them just like they feed eveything else and in turn the cattle get finished sooner. This can be a good thing, but in most cases the yield grades rise and now we have a higher % or yield grade 4's and 5's. This may not lower the % of choice but it will give you discounts for high yield grades.

I do agree that smaller framed earlier maturing cattle put on feed too long will lead to more YG 4s and 5s; though ("I" think) people seeking high quality grades by keeping cattle on feed too long is the major cause of today's YG 4s and 5s.

 

[Ned Jr.]

I finally got around to reading this thread and I have to say I agree with Brandonm2 and LaneFarms. I think cattle being harvested at an earlier age is a huge part of why they don't grade as well as they use to, or should today.
I also think they should outlaw implants in cattle. It gripes me to think that the good beef I work hard to produce on my end could be ruined (in my book) by someone, seeking just a few extra pounds, on the other.

 

[Frankie]

Is their a link to read that article for the March Angus Bulletin.

I don't know if the Angus people put their Magazine online or not. I have the old mailbox edition. The article on the high performance of the article on the Conklin's farm was titled "Simple Goals, Complex Route" pg 15. The 50% Choice figure was on pg 44 in the article: "Marketing for Black Ink" by Steve Suther ~about Angus premiums.

The Angus Journal is online at
http://www.angusjournal.com

The Angus Beef Bulletin is online at
http://www.angusbeefbulletin.com

You may need the date of the issue to locate the article, though. If you find it, please post the link here. I'd be interested in reading it.

 

[mtnman]

Back up the truck!!

Being younger might decrease choice, but then why are yg 4 and 5 increasing, too?

Your theory doesn't hold water.

mtnman

 

[BRG]

I think because the cattle are being pushed harder at a lighter weight while being fed to long and because alot of the smaller framed cattle are fed to hard to early and they then get to pudgy to fast.

 

[MikeC]

I think because the cattle are being pushed harder at a lighter weight while being fed to long and because alot of the smaller framed cattle are fed to hard to early and they then get to pudgy to fast.

Brian, Dan and I will discuss your theory over some Maker's Mark next week. I just hope I can remember his comments! :lol: :lol:

 

[BRG]

Makers Mark, have some good stuff like Crown or Captain :lol: Have one for me too!!! ;-)

Now Dans lot is a little different and better than the average. I don't think they feed like most. They decide which cattle go to get harvested by more than just visual or by time. I am pretty sure they have 7 different ways to decide when they should go. They will not kill cattle that are to fat unless something strange is happening. I like the way they mange this.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Continentals can grade at a young age.
We only had four on the Cornell feedout program - 2 Feb & 2 March '05 steers - purebred Simmentals.
Graded:
HCW 879# Ch+ YG 1.6 sold CAB Days on Feed 148
HCW 863# Ch YG 2.0 DOF 181
HCW 825# Ch YG 3.0 DOF 181
HCW 847# Ch YG 2.9 DOF 181

We had the only carcass out of 208 that YG 1 and graded.
The majority of the cattle were straight Angus & RA. There were heifers & steers - some fed under a conventional system and some under Natural system.
Ours were conventional fed steers - 89 total conv steers:
Total Cost of Gain average was .53 (.43 - .74 range) ours were .48 .51 .51 .52
Total cost avg $302 ($215 - $383 range) ours $308 $339 $347 & 342
Total receipts average was $970 ($692 - $1283) ours were $1283 $1191 $1089 $1118
Return to C/C producer avg: $668 ($380 - $1014) ours were $976 $852 $742 $776

By the way, in order, the first two are Macho sired calves, the other two were sired by two different red bulls (they were red).

 

[Brandonm2]

Back up the truck!!

Being younger might decrease choice, but then why are yg 4 and 5 increasing, too?

Your theory doesn't hold water.

mtnman

I think it explains that too. Feedlots feed the group and NOT the individual. If a feedlot gets used to feeding young cattle longer too increase their Choice percentage they undoubtedly are going to get some older dumpy calves in their pens (particularly from stockyard lots). That little 650 yearling cull stocker might look like he belongs with those 650 pound weaned calves when they start feeding the group. By the time they get through feeding the group, though that calf is a 1070 lb YG4 toad even if half the pen still grades select. I have no way of knowing the frequency of how often this happens; but it would explain both the increase in YG4s and the failure of the Angusization of America's cowherd to result in a higher percentage of Choice carcasses.