Why Breed My Own?

[inyati13]

I am 64. Breeding is a long-term art. I don't have time to be a breeder. Could I get there from here? That is assuming I would be successful in making the right decisions along a path with many forks. Which one do I choose?

I hope AllForage sees this. Because I would ask him this: For a man my age, should I breed to build my herd or make acquistions from families who have been doing this for several generations? I would especially note the Rocking P folks who have more than one line of cattle but I particularly like their phenotype built around the Built Right genetics. They are moderate cows that adapt well to fescue. Easy keepers. Good breeders and easy calvers. I really appreciate their ability to handle some of these bigger calves that I have been having. They have good feet, udders, teats, etc. How could they be more docile? I can do anything I want with mine. I can walk up to a Rocking P Built Right daughter 10 minutes after she calves and she hardly moves an ear.

I have been building using some of the heifers I am growing but aspiring to be a master breeder does not seem logical. What do you say, AllForage?

 

[inyati13]

AllForage where are you? I was thinking more about this. How do you define a "breeder"? I don't consider my operation as a "breeder operation". What I do is purchase cattle that have been selected over many years by breeders who are aspiring to produce cattle that have a set of traits that make them productive and profitable for our conditions in Kentucky. What I do is mate them to produce a product that will be terminal or to be an addition or replacement for my herd. I don't define that as a breeder. I call that mating.

 

[wbvs58]

Ron, I breed to produce some nice heifers to select from. Bull calves are just a biproduct of this. I do enjoy taking some of these bulls through to 2yr olds for sale. It is a bit like showing you get to see them develop to their full potential and even to follow up as they get older if you keep in touch with the buyer.
Someone like me will never have that high selling bull as not many buyers know I exist. I might get a bull that is worthy of a high price but other than catching the eye of a good commercial buyer that is about it. Here in Australia those very high selling bulls from the larger studs have the word passed around by reputable classifiers that class all their cattle and go from herd to herd.
Back to your question, I am building the quality but not uniformity from the cows I have bought and now bred from a very reputable herd. I like a bit of variety, some big frame but also some smaller but very dynamic growth. I hope that what I produce can help to improve the herd they enter. I do not see any point in flushing any of my cows. The 30 females I keep need to have diversity. I am now using 4-5 different AI bulls plus one of mine as backup.
Ken

 

[Rafter S]

I am 64. Breeding is a long-term art. I don't have time to be a breeder. Could I get there from here? That is assuming I would be successful in making the right decisions along a path with many forks. Which one do I choose?

I hope AllForage sees this. Because I would ask him this: For a man my age, should I breed to build my herd or make acquistions from families who have been doing this for several generations? I would especially note the Rocking P folks who have more than one line of cattle but I particularly like their phenotype built around the Built Right genetics. They are moderate cows that adapt well to fescue. Easy keepers. Good breeders and easy calvers. I really appreciate their ability to handle some of these bigger calves that I have been having. They have good feet, udders, teats, etc. How could they be more docile? I can do anything I want with mine. I can walk up to a Rocking P Built Right daughter 10 minutes after she calves and she hardly moves an ear.

I have been building using some of the heifers I am growing but aspiring to be a master breeder does not seem logical. What do you say, AllForage?

I'm about ten years younger than you, but I fully expect to be still raising my own heifers for as long as my health permits, which I hope will be another 20 or 30 years. When I raise them myself, I know what I'm getting. It may be cheaper to buy mature cows, but then I'm depending on being able to find some I like, without buying someone else's problems. I can trace some of my cattle back through 3 or 4 generations. But to be honest, probably the main reason I do it is because I enjoy it. If you don't, then buy them.

 

[gizmom]

inyati13 wrote:
I am 64. Breeding is a long-term art. I don't have time to be a breeder. Could I get there from here? That is assuming I would be successful in making the right decisions along a path with many forks. Which one do I choose?

I hope AllForage sees this. Because I would ask him this: For a man my age, should I breed to build my herd or make acquistions from families who have been doing this for several generations? I would especially note the Rocking P folks who have more than one line of cattle but I particularly like their phenotype built around the Built Right genetics. They are moderate cows that adapt well to fescue. Easy keepers. Good breeders and easy calvers. I really appreciate their ability to handle some of these bigger calves that I have been having. They have good feet, udders, teats, etc. How could they be more docile? I can do anything I want with mine. I can walk up to a Rocking P Built Right daughter 10 minutes after she calves and she hardly moves an ear.

I have been building using some of the heifers I am growing but aspiring to be a master breeder does not seem logical. What do you say, AllForage?

I was thinking about the same thing yesterday while looking at our new calves we are both 60 by the time we honestly know that these calves work or not we will be 65. Needless to say if your on this board you know how much work this is, we do it because we love it and can hopefully make some money. I am already broke down found out two weeks ago that the reason I have been having so much pain is a fracture of my L5. Dr. Says what kind of accident were you in lol I said which one? The cow running me down, the four wheeler (long story) the sink ( another long story) or when it actually started hurting after a bad fall at the commidity barn which was over a year ago. I have been pretty much useless for the past year other than pictures and paperwork. Our son is envolved with the farm so I guess he will take over for us. I am still trying to make the perfect cow I just may have to go out to look at her when I finally do on my walker!

Gizmom

 

[dun]

I have years on you but now I do it for my own satisfaction of having accomplished something of value. I know it won;t be long and when I kick off the cows will just be spread around, but having people willing to buy my product and pay well for it makes me feel good about what I have done. Call it persoanl validation. Maybe it's a bit of personal gloate or brag, but I'm satisfied with it.

 

[Bigfoot]

Sense of accomplishment. Stick with it.

 

[Nesikep]

I say do what brings you pleasure.. You like your cows, and you seem to know where to buy cows you like, so it seems to really be a moot point for you. You seem to have started off on the right foot, barring any really big blunders I think you can easily at least maintain the quality you have. When you see a heifer you like, keep her, or if she's not yours, buy her.

I'm 36, coming up onto my 23rd calving season here, I've seen where my animals have come, it has been a long ways with a lot of troubles that could have been avoided if we'd been smarter when we started. Not all my cows are ideal, but I do have some I consider dandys. I think I finally have a good idea where I'm trying to go with the phenotypes, but even I wonder if I will live long enough to be able to get consistent quality from them. It may not be the fastest way to achieve my goals, but I chose to only keep heifers I raise, at this point I can tell you the lineage up to 5 generations back on every animal here.

 

[Till-Hill]

I'm a young guy but it sure is neat to see the improvement in just 2 or 3 generations.

And like grandpa always said when you either go broke or die you might as well have nice stuff on your farm sale!

 

[dun]

I'm a young guy but it sure is neat to see the improvement in just 2 or 3 generations.

And like grandpa always said when you either go broke or die you might as well have nice stuff on your farm sale!

I like your grandpa's saying!

 

[Nesikep]

Me too!

I do like to see the improvement in even a couple of generations,... But you age quickly when you have cows that live to have 16 calves.
Case in point? My first 'pet' cow was Josie, born in 1991, Her last granddaughter was born last year... I have 6 grand daughters and all but one are 5 years old or less,.. so after 23 years I'm just starting to to see what they can do. I also have 3 great grand daughters and 1 great-great-granddaughter,.. By spring 2016 I will have 4 generations of them here!..
Now if those 5 young granddaughters all have the life expectancy of their mother, I'm going to be 54 by the time I am through with the 3rd generation!... If I keep their later heifers, that'll put me at 70 when I'm done with the 4th... Of course by that time I'll probably have animals in the 10th or 15th generation as well... And all of that is assuming I live my 3 score and 10!

 

[Willow Springs]

I think you need to pick a direction in terms of the "type" of program you want (which it sounds like you have), make sure that is the direction you want to go (sometimes it takes a few years to decide, but it sounds like you want to avoid this due to your age) and then find the programs that match your eye in terms of traits (a good udder to some is not good enough to others) and management. Then you can maybe take a bit of a shortcut by purchasing females from the herd(s), or at the very least have a source for bulls that won't lose you a generation because they were not what you expected after his daughters got to be five years old. Even then they won't all work out as everyone has a different environment (nature & man-made), but a person has to start somewhere and you either start with what is closest to what you want, or buy generic cheaper cows and spend a lot of time just getting them near where you could have started.

I wish I would have done this; would've saved me a lot of time and money. But too often the young people get caught up with the flash & splash of the show ring (I grew up with it), fancy semen catalogues and breed magazine ads. which all have increasingly little to do with trouble free, quality animals for beef production (especially structure & maternal traits).

 

[AllForage]

AllForage where are you? I was thinking more about this. How do you define a "breeder"? I don't consider my operation as a "breeder operation". What I do is purchase cattle that have been selected over many years by breeders who are aspiring to produce cattle that have a set of traits that make them productive and profitable for our conditions in Kentucky. What I do is mate them to produce a product that will be terminal or to be an addition or replacement for my herd. I don't define that as a breeder. I call that mating.

Just got out of hospital from part 2 of 2.

Good definition you got there. Was going to comment on your BW thread but thought it would fall on deaf ears.

I would rather spend 2-3 years or more seeing the fruits of my decisions and watching for my next bull rather than following the herd. That's just me.

 

[Willow Springs]

I wish I would have done this; would've saved me a lot of time and money. But too often the young people get caught up with the flash & splash of the show ring (I grew up with it), fancy semen catalogues and breed magazine ads. which all have increasingly little to do with trouble free, quality animals for beef production (especially structure & maternal traits).

I should point out that if a person decides to take the flash & splash approach that's all fine, it's just not for me anymore. It does take a lot of work and dedication just to participate in, let alone win at, and these people work very hard. Just not the same industry I'm in.

 

[inyati13]

Ron, I breed to produce some nice heifers to select from. Bull calves are just a biproduct of this. I do enjoy taking some of these bulls through to 2yr olds for sale. It is a bit like showing you get to see them develop to their full potential and even to follow up as they get older if you keep in touch with the buyer.
Someone like me will never have that high selling bull as not many buyers know I exist. I might get a bull that is worthy of a high price but other than catching the eye of a good commercial buyer that is about it. Here in Australia those very high selling bulls from the larger studs have the word passed around by reputable classifiers that class all their cattle and go from herd to herd.
Back to your question, I am building the quality but not uniformity from the cows I have bought and now bred from a very reputable herd. I like a bit of variety, some big frame but also some smaller but very dynamic growth. I hope that what I produce can help to improve the herd they enter. I do not see any point in flushing any of my cows. The 30 females I keep need to have diversity. I am now using 4-5 different AI bulls plus one of mine as backup.
Ken

Ken, that is exactly the path I am on! Amazing how similiar our goals are. I have no interest in flushing or embryo implants but don't tell Fire Sweep Ranch I said that.

 

[JWBrahman]

The 30 females I keep need to have diversity. I am now using 4-5 different AI bulls plus one of mine as backup.
Ken

:clap: :tiphat:

Yes indeed. 30 live calves ready for market beats 20 consistent ones every day of the year.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I'd rather my herd be consistent,,pumping out cookie cut calves...just like a factory.

 

[wbvs58]

I'd rather my herd be consistent,,pumping out cookie cut calves...just like a factory.

Yes that is the logical goal for a commercial breeder all born within one cycle period and like peas in a pod in the sale ring but the way I am doing it now I have some cows that produce big frame calves and certainly when selling bulls size does sell. I have other smaller cows that consistently produce the heaviest weaner calves and great nuggety little calves and some buyers producing vealers in tough country like buying these bulls and I like watching how each of the different type develop. I also don't mind now if my calving period is stretched out as the sale that I sell my bulls at sells in order of age and it is good to have them distributed through the catalogue as some people like buying the younger ones and others the older.
Ken