OP
OP
Anonymous
1600 lbs. on average
> What mature weights do your
> Simmenthal cows run?
> dun
> What mature weights do your
> Simmenthal cows run?
> dun
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OP
OP
Anonymous
aren't you curious? I'd really like to know why the fact that Angus breeders have increased ribeye to be comparable with Continentals, without degrading marbling would cause someone to NOT use Angus. I can understand if they had a system in place that worked, those facts would not make them start using Angus. But why would it turn someone away? Guess I'm not going to get my curosity satisfied though.
> lets not get into a pissing
> contest. In some management and
> marketing systems systems each has
> a place. It's a matter of using
> what is right for your system and
> ultimately the consumer. In our
> marketing group, the feedlots that
> buy the calves prefer a high
> degree of British influence, only
> enough continental to get frame,
> and so little Brahman that it is
> masked by the primary breed type.
> That's our market. I've spoken
> with other folks in the same type
> of marketing group in this area,
> their buyers prefer a high degree
> of continental. Obviously the
> feedlots that each group deals
> with has a differnt market they
> are providing for. I personally
> prefer a quarter Simmenthal or
> Gelbvieh, a quarter Hereford and
> half Angus for marketing. F1's of
> either british breed and either of
> the continentals for momma cows,
> or F1 Angus Hereford and use
> either a proper angus pull, or
> when they get more available and
> proven either Balancer or Simangus
> bulls. One thing I find strange,
> in this area, any Brahman
> influence is heavily discounted
> that includes Brangus, Gerts, etc.
> But pure trumpet eared, humped
> shouldered baby or weaned light
> weight calves consistantly outsell
> everything, including black Angus
> from registered herds.
> dun
[email protected]
> lets not get into a pissing
> contest. In some management and
> marketing systems systems each has
> a place. It's a matter of using
> what is right for your system and
> ultimately the consumer. In our
> marketing group, the feedlots that
> buy the calves prefer a high
> degree of British influence, only
> enough continental to get frame,
> and so little Brahman that it is
> masked by the primary breed type.
> That's our market. I've spoken
> with other folks in the same type
> of marketing group in this area,
> their buyers prefer a high degree
> of continental. Obviously the
> feedlots that each group deals
> with has a differnt market they
> are providing for. I personally
> prefer a quarter Simmenthal or
> Gelbvieh, a quarter Hereford and
> half Angus for marketing. F1's of
> either british breed and either of
> the continentals for momma cows,
> or F1 Angus Hereford and use
> either a proper angus pull, or
> when they get more available and
> proven either Balancer or Simangus
> bulls. One thing I find strange,
> in this area, any Brahman
> influence is heavily discounted
> that includes Brangus, Gerts, etc.
> But pure trumpet eared, humped
> shouldered baby or weaned light
> weight calves consistantly outsell
> everything, including black Angus
> from registered herds.
> dun
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
Some intersting numbers once again from MARC. The thing I am curious about is why the 3% drop from unassisted births to survival to weaning on the Angus and exactly the same survival percentage on the Angus and Simmental. How many animals is this data generated on. Numbers can be juggled in many ways. To most people the most important numbers are ROP, RECORD OF PROFIT. There are lots of ways to do it with a variety of different breeds that work best for you. The brahman type cattle won't cut it up here, we need haircoats. If you are raising cattle in temperate climates with ticks and such they work great. The Simmental breed is the most populous bos taurus breed in the world. Are they only breed for North America of course not but they certainly cross well with most breeds.
OP
OP
Anonymous
No Simmenthals yet, adding those this year I hope. Cows over 1200 don't work well for us
dun
> 1600 lbs. on average
dun
> 1600 lbs. on average
OP
OP
Anonymous
> Some intersting numbers once again
> from MARC. The thing I am curious
> about is why the 3% drop from
> unassisted births to survival to
> weaning on the Angus and exactly
> the same survival percentage on
> the Angus and Simmental. How many
> animals is this data generated on.
> Numbers can be juggled in many
> ways. To most people the most
> important numbers are ROP, RECORD
> OF PROFIT. There are lots of ways
> to do it with a variety of
> different breeds that work best
> for you. The brahman type cattle
> won't cut it up here, we need
> haircoats. If you are raising
> cattle in temperate climates with
> ticks and such they work great.
> The Simmental breed is the most
> populous bos taurus breed in the
> world. Are they only breed for
> North America of course not but
> they certainly cross well with
> most breeds.
ROP --- how true!! We all need to raise what works best for us in our particular market & environment. And (unfortunately) we need to keep in mind the the adage that "Perception Is Reality". Right or wrong, what are the perceptions of our buyers?
In a particular environment, if one can raise animals from a number of breeds equally well, but the targeted market likes black with no ears -- raise Black Angus. In the southeast and parts of Texas maybe the market tells you to raise Charolais crossed calves. Or black baldies elsewhere.
Gosh, based on my experiences, conversations and reading it seems that if you talk to enough breeders (in love with their particular breeds) you could almost get the impression that all breeds are easy calvers; that the calves grow fast as hell, will almost all grade Choice and the top YG-1; will handle cold easily (if your are in cold country) or handle heat & humidity well (if you are along the Gulf Coast); have great maternal qualities, produce fantastic replacement heifers and magnificent steers that are the most highly desired; have the most wonderful disposition; will thrive on forages that others breeds won't touch, etc., etc. etc.
I have a request ---- I'd like to buy some replacement cows & bulls. I want them to raise polled, black calves with small ears and no hump; the calves should have Angus type marbling qualities; the cows & bulls should have Brahman-type abilities with respect to heat, humidity & insects; the cows (including heifers) should calve as easily as a Longhorn. I want them to have the disposition of most Herefords; and the butts & guts & non-marbling carcass qualities of one of the Continental breeds. And I want them to grow fast like a Charolais or Simmental sired crossbred. I want the bulls to have extremely high libido but I don't want them to be fence jumpers. I want the replacement heifers to always calf unassisted at two years old, raise a huge calf and to breed back right on time. Cows should raise calves that wean at 65% of the cow's weight and should give me another calf every 11 months; oh well, I guess I'd settle for one calf every 12 months. The heifers and cows should milk like a Holstein, or at least like a Gelbvieh. And what the hell, make them immune to internal & external parasites, grubs, lice, etc. so that I never have to worm them. And they should also be considered taboo by horn flies. And I want them to be real inexpensive for me to purchase, but very expensive when I sell them! Can anyone help me out?
Didn't think so, but I can dream can't I?
Happy New Year to everybody.
> from MARC. The thing I am curious
> about is why the 3% drop from
> unassisted births to survival to
> weaning on the Angus and exactly
> the same survival percentage on
> the Angus and Simmental. How many
> animals is this data generated on.
> Numbers can be juggled in many
> ways. To most people the most
> important numbers are ROP, RECORD
> OF PROFIT. There are lots of ways
> to do it with a variety of
> different breeds that work best
> for you. The brahman type cattle
> won't cut it up here, we need
> haircoats. If you are raising
> cattle in temperate climates with
> ticks and such they work great.
> The Simmental breed is the most
> populous bos taurus breed in the
> world. Are they only breed for
> North America of course not but
> they certainly cross well with
> most breeds.
ROP --- how true!! We all need to raise what works best for us in our particular market & environment. And (unfortunately) we need to keep in mind the the adage that "Perception Is Reality". Right or wrong, what are the perceptions of our buyers?
In a particular environment, if one can raise animals from a number of breeds equally well, but the targeted market likes black with no ears -- raise Black Angus. In the southeast and parts of Texas maybe the market tells you to raise Charolais crossed calves. Or black baldies elsewhere.
Gosh, based on my experiences, conversations and reading it seems that if you talk to enough breeders (in love with their particular breeds) you could almost get the impression that all breeds are easy calvers; that the calves grow fast as hell, will almost all grade Choice and the top YG-1; will handle cold easily (if your are in cold country) or handle heat & humidity well (if you are along the Gulf Coast); have great maternal qualities, produce fantastic replacement heifers and magnificent steers that are the most highly desired; have the most wonderful disposition; will thrive on forages that others breeds won't touch, etc., etc. etc.
I have a request ---- I'd like to buy some replacement cows & bulls. I want them to raise polled, black calves with small ears and no hump; the calves should have Angus type marbling qualities; the cows & bulls should have Brahman-type abilities with respect to heat, humidity & insects; the cows (including heifers) should calve as easily as a Longhorn. I want them to have the disposition of most Herefords; and the butts & guts & non-marbling carcass qualities of one of the Continental breeds. And I want them to grow fast like a Charolais or Simmental sired crossbred. I want the bulls to have extremely high libido but I don't want them to be fence jumpers. I want the replacement heifers to always calf unassisted at two years old, raise a huge calf and to breed back right on time. Cows should raise calves that wean at 65% of the cow's weight and should give me another calf every 11 months; oh well, I guess I'd settle for one calf every 12 months. The heifers and cows should milk like a Holstein, or at least like a Gelbvieh. And what the hell, make them immune to internal & external parasites, grubs, lice, etc. so that I never have to worm them. And they should also be considered taboo by horn flies. And I want them to be real inexpensive for me to purchase, but very expensive when I sell them! Can anyone help me out?
Didn't think so, but I can dream can't I?
Happy New Year to everybody.
OP
OP
Anonymous
you know that if Angus breeders are increasing ribeye area is because Angus is already influenced by Continental blood, the only thing is that black gene is stronger and like it's balck is called Angus.
Black Angus is the most numerous cattle in the U.S. and I bet that if we compared it with the Continental cattle bred in U.S. in average continental gives better quality meat than Angus, Continental will have better weaning weights, better average daily gains will be better in almost everything with the exception of backfat.
I said in my past messages that I was going to influence my commercial herd with Angus blood using Red Brangus, the weather and temperature conditions where I have my farms need some Brahman or Zebu influnce too, and I'm doing this cause I want in the first place Red color and in the second to increase marbling in my Commercials even though I have several Simbrah bulls already influence with Normande (good marbling and tenderness).
I have already A.I. some of my Simmentals with Red Angus as a test and I have been told that it's a good crossbreed, and they just confirmed it to me.
If I began to decrease the performance in weaning weights and A.D.G., I think that I will have a lot of A.B.M.(Angus Burger Meat)
If this does not satisfied your curiosity is not my problem, together with my brothers we own around 8,000 head of cattle and we sell to the American market nearly 3,000 steers every year so I think we know what we are doing and we don't raise Angus nor Brangus cattle.
> aren't you curious? I'd really
> like to know why the fact that
> Angus breeders have increased
> ribeye to be comparable with
> Continentals, without degrading
> marbling would cause someone to
> NOT use Angus. I can understand if
> they had a system in place that
> worked, those facts would not make
> them start using Angus. But why
> would it turn someone away? Guess
> I'm not going to get my curosity
> satisfied though.
[email protected]
Black Angus is the most numerous cattle in the U.S. and I bet that if we compared it with the Continental cattle bred in U.S. in average continental gives better quality meat than Angus, Continental will have better weaning weights, better average daily gains will be better in almost everything with the exception of backfat.
I said in my past messages that I was going to influence my commercial herd with Angus blood using Red Brangus, the weather and temperature conditions where I have my farms need some Brahman or Zebu influnce too, and I'm doing this cause I want in the first place Red color and in the second to increase marbling in my Commercials even though I have several Simbrah bulls already influence with Normande (good marbling and tenderness).
I have already A.I. some of my Simmentals with Red Angus as a test and I have been told that it's a good crossbreed, and they just confirmed it to me.
If I began to decrease the performance in weaning weights and A.D.G., I think that I will have a lot of A.B.M.(Angus Burger Meat)
If this does not satisfied your curiosity is not my problem, together with my brothers we own around 8,000 head of cattle and we sell to the American market nearly 3,000 steers every year so I think we know what we are doing and we don't raise Angus nor Brangus cattle.
> aren't you curious? I'd really
> like to know why the fact that
> Angus breeders have increased
> ribeye to be comparable with
> Continentals, without degrading
> marbling would cause someone to
> NOT use Angus. I can understand if
> they had a system in place that
> worked, those facts would not make
> them start using Angus. But why
> would it turn someone away? Guess
> I'm not going to get my curosity
> satisfied though.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
The Local feeder buyers (Maine) pay more for angus influence calves of quality. They are buying calves that work in there feeding program and meet the carcass specs of their buyers. The heavy continental influence cattle finish too big and later than they like. Their premium market is for choice beef with specs similiar to CAB without hide color. Quality and source recognized do well regardless of color.
pat
pat
OP
OP
Anonymous
> I totally agree. When we used to
> market differently, we used a
> black Angus bull with positive
> carcass and growth traits. Didn't
> care aboyt any maternal, to us he
> was just a terminal cross While
> there are a lot more black Angus
> bulls then Reds to choose from, if
> you look hard enough you can find
> those outliere types of Red Angus
> that have the antagonistic traits
> for maternal, growth and carcass.
> It's just a lot harder with Reds.
> We have a few blacks but the vast
> majority are red, Red Angus, red
> Gelbvieh, and soon red Simmenthal.
> That's the breed that I'm having
> the hardest time finding good red
> animals in.
> dun Where do I begin? Lets start at the beginning, or somewhere close. The reason for the big deal on Black ,has to do with the CAB program ,a wonderful tool that the Angus Association came up with, but they only put in one stipulation for cattle to meet when they went into the program, and that was and is, that one parent be BLACK ANGUS the key word BLACK. What breeds can we cross an Angus with and not come out black, all the data on CAB that I have found, is that only 20% of all the cattle enrolled in the program meet the requirements, 80% don't . Still not the complete answer though untill you factor in the Land Grant Universities (LGUs) that pushed the Elephants ( you remember that other wonderful program that the American Angus came up with {how to put an elephant in the box} about the same time they started CAB.) Well the LGUs kept telling us that the little British breeds weren't what the industry needed,but big and black was. When the consumer finally told the PHDs that nobody wanted a 24oz "T"bone the LGUs figured they had it half right, black . A progam in Michigan was started and eventhough a Red Angus breeder had all the data to show that his cattle met all the requirements but one, black, he was not allowed in the program. As one of the orginal resource persons told me and several other breeders and I quote "If you ask a consumer in Detroit what kind of beef is best the answer is Black Angus the key word is black, you have been outmaneuvered." Why because black angus was there first. It just name recogintion just like all tape is Scotch tape, wether it is or not. Becareful of the Angus bulls that you select out of the stud books, keep a careful eye on the frame score as a lot of these bull are only frame 5 and sometimes smaller, to help the big frame breeders scale down so you can meet some markets. One more point, and that is when you cross Angus with any british breed you will have the type of cattle that will meet CAB, Certified Hereford , or any of the many certified programs out there.
[email protected]
> market differently, we used a
> black Angus bull with positive
> carcass and growth traits. Didn't
> care aboyt any maternal, to us he
> was just a terminal cross While
> there are a lot more black Angus
> bulls then Reds to choose from, if
> you look hard enough you can find
> those outliere types of Red Angus
> that have the antagonistic traits
> for maternal, growth and carcass.
> It's just a lot harder with Reds.
> We have a few blacks but the vast
> majority are red, Red Angus, red
> Gelbvieh, and soon red Simmenthal.
> That's the breed that I'm having
> the hardest time finding good red
> animals in.
> dun Where do I begin? Lets start at the beginning, or somewhere close. The reason for the big deal on Black ,has to do with the CAB program ,a wonderful tool that the Angus Association came up with, but they only put in one stipulation for cattle to meet when they went into the program, and that was and is, that one parent be BLACK ANGUS the key word BLACK. What breeds can we cross an Angus with and not come out black, all the data on CAB that I have found, is that only 20% of all the cattle enrolled in the program meet the requirements, 80% don't . Still not the complete answer though untill you factor in the Land Grant Universities (LGUs) that pushed the Elephants ( you remember that other wonderful program that the American Angus came up with {how to put an elephant in the box} about the same time they started CAB.) Well the LGUs kept telling us that the little British breeds weren't what the industry needed,but big and black was. When the consumer finally told the PHDs that nobody wanted a 24oz "T"bone the LGUs figured they had it half right, black . A progam in Michigan was started and eventhough a Red Angus breeder had all the data to show that his cattle met all the requirements but one, black, he was not allowed in the program. As one of the orginal resource persons told me and several other breeders and I quote "If you ask a consumer in Detroit what kind of beef is best the answer is Black Angus the key word is black, you have been outmaneuvered." Why because black angus was there first. It just name recogintion just like all tape is Scotch tape, wether it is or not. Becareful of the Angus bulls that you select out of the stud books, keep a careful eye on the frame score as a lot of these bull are only frame 5 and sometimes smaller, to help the big frame breeders scale down so you can meet some markets. One more point, and that is when you cross Angus with any british breed you will have the type of cattle that will meet CAB, Certified Hereford , or any of the many certified programs out there.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
Frankie you make a statement that is a leap in logic HOLD ON! Angus didn't increase carcass size without degrading marbling. and the numbers bear it out, 80% of angus slaughter won't meet standards for CAB
OP
OP
Anonymous
> Arnold I agree big time, you find a breed like that I'll sell everything on the place and buy from you HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE
OP
OP
Anonymous
And do we know that the Angus cattle with the smaller ribeyes of 30 years ago would qualify as CAB at a higher rate? I don't know that. There's more to CAB than just marbling, YG is important, too. I would guess we get better YGs on Angus cattle today than 30 years ago. Some producers who have paid attention to EPDs and have a strong Angus influence in their herd, or straightbred Angus, qualify for CAB at a much higher rate than the 20% average. It's for sure that not all Angus will marble, but carcass EPDs should help identify those that don't. I based my comments on the recent MARC data released.
[email protected]
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
It's my curse, I guess. When I want to know something, I ask the question. You certainly don't have to answer, but I appreciate that you did. I won't continue to upset Dunmovin (he's such a sensitive soul!) by continuing this discussion. But you're wrong on most counts of your response.
> you know that if Angus breeders
> are increasing ribeye area is
> because Angus is already
> influenced by Continental blood,
> the only thing is that black gene
> is stronger and like it's balck is
> called Angus.
> Black Angus is the most numerous
> cattle in the U.S. and I bet that
> if we compared it with the
> Continental cattle bred in U.S. in
> average continental gives better
> quality meat than Angus,
> Continental will have better
> weaning weights, better average
> daily gains will be better in
> almost everything with the
> exception of backfat.
> I said in my past messages that I
> was going to influence my
> commercial herd with Angus blood
> using Red Brangus, the weather and
> temperature conditions where I
> have my farms need some Brahman or
> Zebu influnce too, and I'm doing
> this cause I want in the first
> place Red color and in the second
> to increase marbling in my
> Commercials even though I have
> several Simbrah bulls already
> influence with Normande (good
> marbling and tenderness).
> I have already A.I. some of my
> Simmentals with Red Angus as a
> test and I have been told that
> it's a good crossbreed, and they
> just confirmed it to me.
> If I began to decrease the
> performance in weaning weights and
> A.D.G., I think that I will have a
> lot of A.B.M.(Angus Burger Meat)
> If this does not satisfied your
> curiosity is not my problem,
> together with my brothers we own
> around 8,000 head of cattle and we
> sell to the American market nearly
> 3,000 steers every year so I think
> we know what we are doing and we
> don't raise Angus nor Brangus
> cattle.
[email protected]
> you know that if Angus breeders
> are increasing ribeye area is
> because Angus is already
> influenced by Continental blood,
> the only thing is that black gene
> is stronger and like it's balck is
> called Angus.
> Black Angus is the most numerous
> cattle in the U.S. and I bet that
> if we compared it with the
> Continental cattle bred in U.S. in
> average continental gives better
> quality meat than Angus,
> Continental will have better
> weaning weights, better average
> daily gains will be better in
> almost everything with the
> exception of backfat.
> I said in my past messages that I
> was going to influence my
> commercial herd with Angus blood
> using Red Brangus, the weather and
> temperature conditions where I
> have my farms need some Brahman or
> Zebu influnce too, and I'm doing
> this cause I want in the first
> place Red color and in the second
> to increase marbling in my
> Commercials even though I have
> several Simbrah bulls already
> influence with Normande (good
> marbling and tenderness).
> I have already A.I. some of my
> Simmentals with Red Angus as a
> test and I have been told that
> it's a good crossbreed, and they
> just confirmed it to me.
> If I began to decrease the
> performance in weaning weights and
> A.D.G., I think that I will have a
> lot of A.B.M.(Angus Burger Meat)
> If this does not satisfied your
> curiosity is not my problem,
> together with my brothers we own
> around 8,000 head of cattle and we
> sell to the American market nearly
> 3,000 steers every year so I think
> we know what we are doing and we
> don't raise Angus nor Brangus
> cattle.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
It just reminds me of my dads old saying "The more you stir it the more it stinks". And my yes, I'm just so sensitive
dun
dun
OP
OP
Anonymous
if you work for cattle today as I understand cause you E-mail, you should guide people without any preference, or cattle today is auspice by the Angus Breeders, the same as when they certified their meat looking just to benefit their breeders and that is logical and permited, but you have to be imparcial to any breed just giving the right suggestion.
> It's my curse, I guess. When I
> want to know something, I ask the
> question. You certainly don't have
> to answer, but I appreciate that
> you did. I won't continue to upset
> Dunmovin (he's such a sensitive
> soul!) by continuing this
> discussion. But you're wrong on
> most counts of your response.
[email protected]
> It's my curse, I guess. When I
> want to know something, I ask the
> question. You certainly don't have
> to answer, but I appreciate that
> you did. I won't continue to upset
> Dunmovin (he's such a sensitive
> soul!) by continuing this
> discussion. But you're wrong on
> most counts of your response.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
I don't work for Cattle Today. They offer a free email service. You, too, can have a Cattle Today email address if you want.
> if you work for cattle today as I
> understand cause you E-mail, you
> should guide people without any
> preference, or cattle today is
> auspice by the Angus Breeders, the
> same as when they certified their
> meat looking just to benefit their
> breeders and that is logical and
> permited, but you have to be
> imparcial to any breed just giving
> the right suggestion.
[email protected]
> if you work for cattle today as I
> understand cause you E-mail, you
> should guide people without any
> preference, or cattle today is
> auspice by the Angus Breeders, the
> same as when they certified their
> meat looking just to benefit their
> breeders and that is logical and
> permited, but you have to be
> imparcial to any breed just giving
> the right suggestion.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
oh thanks, but any way I still think you are just an Angus pasionate breeder that does not recognize that their are other breeds of cattle that are more highly demanded than Angus and I'm talking worldwide.
> I don't work for Cattle Today.
> They offer a free email service.
> You, too, can have a Cattle Today
> email address if you want.
[email protected]
> I don't work for Cattle Today.
> They offer a free email service.
> You, too, can have a Cattle Today
> email address if you want.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
making a good choice it should work, with all my respect you could try some Normande in your herd, as for me it's working
> No Simmenthals yet, adding those
> this year I hope. Cows over 1200
> don't work well for us
> dun
[email protected]
> No Simmenthals yet, adding those
> this year I hope. Cows over 1200
> don't work well for us
> dun
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
Oh, I'm definitely a passionate Angus breeder (one of many). And I'm not too interested in how different breeds work world wide. I know what works for me and believe that Angus can work for most everyone in the US. When you crossbreed and crossbreed and crossbreed, you lose consistency in your animals. And that's not a good thing. Worldwide, CAB is the largest selling branded beef. So, much of the rest of the world appreciates a good Angus steak, too.
> oh thanks, but any way I still
> think you are just an Angus
> pasionate breeder that does not
> recognize that their are other
> breeds of cattle that are more
> highly demanded than Angus and I'm
> talking worldwide.
[email protected]
> oh thanks, but any way I still
> think you are just an Angus
> pasionate breeder that does not
> recognize that their are other
> breeds of cattle that are more
> highly demanded than Angus and I'm
> talking worldwide.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
I think you need to base your comments in personal experiences, this would help a bit better in you personal advises
> I
> based my comments on the recent
> MARC data released.
[email protected]
> I
> based my comments on the recent
> MARC data released.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
"I think you need to base your comments in personal experiences, this would help a bit better in you personal advises"
Recently the Angus Assn. posted info that a certain bull was carrying the Dwarf gene. So you think I should wait until one of my cows produces a Dwarf before I tell someone that bull carries the Dwarf gene? I don't think so. I can read and learn from other's experiences, from university and MARC research, bull test reports, etc. I would be foolish not to use available resources and selfish not to share those resources with other cattlemen.
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Recently the Angus Assn. posted info that a certain bull was carrying the Dwarf gene. So you think I should wait until one of my cows produces a Dwarf before I tell someone that bull carries the Dwarf gene? I don't think so. I can read and learn from other's experiences, from university and MARC research, bull test reports, etc. I would be foolish not to use available resources and selfish not to share those resources with other cattlemen.
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