Who's the sire ?

[Richnm]

My buddy had 2 commercial cows AI'd to Raindance sexed semen. One first calf heifer , the other 7 year old cow they were due end of May. Heifer calved May 16th ( a heifer ). Cow calved June 14th. There was a 10 month old bull in there with them ( out of the cow). I think the 2nd calf is out of the cows own 10 month old bull and not from the AI. Or the heifer was 2 weeks early , and the cow was 2 weeks late ?

 

[greggy]

So it is take your pick ?

Assuming they are all black, gonna be hard to know without lab test ? And why was there a 10mth bull in there either way.....

 

[Dsth]

not unusual for heifers to calf early. Had one two years ago calf 3 weeks early with a healthy calf. all AI with no bull around. Different breeds have different gestation length so that may make a difference on the cow being 2 weeks late. The cow getting bred by her 10 month old calf is also possible, but I would think being late would be more likely. Depending on how curious you are, a DNA test would give you an answer.

 

[Richnm]

They are commercial black angus. They are his pets. I mentioned to him to separate them. He buys a lot of hay. So I wasnt gonna push the idea to hard. They were due May 29th

 

[CG1]

From what I understand 2 weeks early and 2 weeks later is still a completely normal timeline. Its an animal not a machine. Think about it in terms of humans 37-42 weeks is a full term baby. Not every baby comes at 40 weeks....no difference.

 

[Farmgirl]

Entirely possible that both calves are from AI. How could a 10 month old bull calf do the job? He would have been a month old when the cow was bred. I've always heard and seen, calving dates can vary 2 weeks either way from due date.

My :2cents:
Farmgirl

 

[greggy]

I would not pay any attention then, let him ask how he can know for sure which one was the sire, then he can decide if he wants to do that as well when you mention how....shrug.....if he calls, say you will have a chat when you ship or he buys the next load of hay... ;-)

I have had sheep pop out babies that did not only look empty, but must have been done by 2-3 month old males and were young maidens, some at 2 months are nothing too look at, some have more nuts than young bulls....

 

[greggy]

Entirely possible that both calves are from AI. How could a 10 month old bull calf do the job? He would have been a month old when the cow was bred. I've always heard and seen, calving dates can vary 2 weeks either way from due date.

My :2cents:
Farmgirl

lol..

I think the 10 month old was at the time, on hand, waiting around...bored kinda......he must be 18mth now......

 

[CG1]

Entirely possible that both calves are from AI. How could a 10 month old bull calf do the job? He would have been a month old when the cow was bred. I've always heard and seen, calving dates can vary 2 weeks either way from due date.

My :2cents:
Farmgirl

lol..

I think the 10 month old was at the time, on hand, waiting around...bored kinda......he must be 18mth now......

I leave 10 month old bulls with my cows. I leave 10 month old heifers with my bulls. I have never had an accident. I have yet to have one male or female reach sexual maturity before 13 months. Most 16-18 months.

 

[greggy]

Maybe he got big ideas after seeing them attempt artificial impregnation & did the job on them both ? heck, that is possible too....he was kinda bored and trying to figure out the meaning of life at that point....wanted off the teat...earn his keep ?

 

[greggy]

Entirely possible that both calves are from AI. How could a 10 month old bull calf do the job? He would have been a month old when the cow was bred. I've always heard and seen, calving dates can vary 2 weeks either way from due date.

My :2cents:
Farmgirl

lol..

I think the 10 month old was at the time, on hand, waiting around...bored kinda......he must be 18mth now......

I leave 10 month old bulls with my cows. I leave 10 month old heifers with my bulls. I have never had an accident. I have yet to have one male or female reach sexual maturity before 13 months. Most 16-18 months.

one day.....

I have seen it in sheep, and others I know had mystical pregs, I told them, males out by 2 months or banded early, sheep should not take before a certain age too, but have had some take very, very early.

I have had heifers in standing heat young too, I would keep bulls out after weaning, and I would prob do that before 9 months, I would not actually trust a well grown bull calf at all. Def not in with heifers not of right size.

Yours may be coming later due too feeding, I have 7 month old bottle calves fast approaching size of some much more mature heifers, I would not leave a bull with any of them, even though I have not seen them in standing heat, I have seen them mounting each other though, there is too may variables IMO to say it is ok to do this till x age.

It all depends what is at stake, with my young heifers, their life may be, and my hard work, all males removed, if there was money and serious breeding at stake, they would be in a bull proof paddock I would think (and escape proof for them), I would not even have any young bulls with them at all, nor steers.

Either way, it would be foolish to rule out the 10 month old if he was growing well, I would say if fed well, he was likely able to function quite well. As above, all depends on how important it is.

 

[CG1]

lol..

I think the 10 month old was at the time, on hand, waiting around...bored kinda......he must be 18mth now......

I leave 10 month old bulls with my cows. I leave 10 month old heifers with my bulls. I have never had an accident. I have yet to have one male or female reach sexual maturity before 13 months. Most 16-18 months.

one day.....

I have seen it in sheep, and others I know had mystical pregs, I told them, males out by 2 months or banded early, sheep should not take before a certain age too, but have had some take very, very early.

I have had heifers in standing heat young too, I would keep bulls out after weaning, and I would prob do that before 9 months, I would not actually trust a well grown bull calf at all. Def not in with heifers not of right size.

Yours may be coming later due too feeding, I have 7 month old bottle calves fast approaching size of some much more mature heifers, I would not leave a bull with any of them, even though I have not seen them in standing heat, I have seen them mounting each other though, there is too may variables IMO to say it is ok to do this till x age.

It all depends what is at stake, with my young heifers, their life may be, and my hard work, all males removed, if there was money and serious breeding at stake, they would be in a bull proof paddock I would think (and escape proof for them), I would not even have any young bulls with them at all, nor steers.

Either way, it would be foolish to rule out the 10 month old if he was growing well, I would say if fed well, he was likely able to function quite well. As above, all depends on how important it is.

We've checked all our heifer bottle calves we've kept over a year and none of them have reached sexual maturity until that 15ish month mark. Could be breed. Could be just genetics. Nature has its own timeline.

 

[Katpau]

If that bull is Angus, my money would be on the youngster for the older cow. Most of my heifers calve early with an average of 278 days gestation and vary from about 264 days to 280 days. If the heifer was synchronized, she should not have been already pregnant when bred AI, so I would guess her calf was the result of AI. My money is on the 10 month old bull for the second calf. My angus cows average 280 days gestation and I have never known one to go over by two weeks. That cow calved 16 days after the expected birth date. Most of my cows cycle every 18 to 21 days, so that delivery sounds just right for a bull breeding.

Last fall I bought a couple cows with fall calves on them. I ended up putting a 6 month old bull in with my yearling heifers when I weaned him. I got worried about him breeding them so I moved him in with a cow that lost her calf and then added a small group of cows that had been sorted off for a yearling bull. He was with the group for several weeks before the other bull was added. On the day we hauled in our young bull, I watched the 8 month old successfully breed one of those cows. I had hoped to leave him in the herd, but the two bulls immediately began to fight for dominance. We hauled the 8 month old and the cow that lost her calf down to the now empty bull lot. My cull cow will stay there until I move the other bulls back. I don't like to leave one alone since they tend to stress and walk the fence.

I will know when these cows calf in the spring, whether he was able to settle any of them. I suspect he did, since I watched pretty close and several of them never seemed to cycle for my other bull. These cattle are Angus, and unlike Cowgal 604, I have had many that reached sexual maturity at very young ages. Last year I had an almost 13 month old heifer give birth. She is now two years old and is raising her second calf.

 

[Richnm]

My money is on the 10 month old bull also breeding his mama cow. They were both synced with lut, so the heifer was definitely bred by Raindance and calved early. I wonder how the calf will turn out?