Whos the Daddy??

[cotton1]

My calving got off to a late start this year, or a early start this year depending on who the daddy is. I have my opinion, and have asked family and friends and gotten mixed opinions so I thought it would be nice to see what the CT family thinks.

The mama cow in this is a first time heifer, and an important one too. She is a ET calf that is a old mating. Her brother was a popular AI bull, and she is a close decedent of a famous cow line. Needless to say I wanted her to have a easy calving for her first one. I used a proven calving ease bull with EPDs that are: CE 13.1(60+ acc) BW -1.2(80+ acc) on 03/22/16.

She was with the herd on her AI date with no bulls in sight, not grown bulls or younguns. I did turn my herd bull, Injector in on 04/10/16 at 3PM. If my math was right(flip a coin) the AI calf should have had a due date of 12/29/2016 and the earliest due date from the herd bull should have been 01/17/2017.

Nancy(heifer mama here) dropped me a boy calf on 01/11/2017 mid day. Nice calf, healthy 83lbs which is almost average here, maybe a little light.

I had not used the AI bull before myself but he was owned by several of my friends who made hundreds of calfs off him. His EPDs are backed up by those progeny, plus 50k testing.I called the main owner of the bull who said he did see some of those calfs go a few days over due date, like maybe 4-5 days.

Myself I figured its my herd bull. His first bull calf's last year were in the upper 80lb range. I will not register the little guy until he is old enough to pull hair and get a parentage test, so its not a big deal. Just curious what folks think about this. I don't remember having one be in between before.

What do you think?

Cotton1

 

[Black and Good]

If you never saw your bull breeding her I'd have to say it could go either way! Flip of a :2cents: !
B&G

 

[cotton1]

Thats a good point that I forgot to mention. I saw the bull breed a different cow about 2 hours after he went in, but never saw him breed Nancy.

Cotton1

 

[frieghttrain]

It would be odd for a heifer to be 12 days overdue, but I don't know almost nothing about Charolais. Does her line have a longer gestation?

 

[Backbone Ranch]

My guess would be that Injector sired the calf. In our herd, our heifers tend to calve a bit early. The fact that this calf was lighter at birth than most in your herd leads me to believe that Injector was the sire.

 

[cotton1]

Frieghttrain- as far as I know there has been no early gestation with the cow line to speak of. I kinda would have thought that the AI bull might have a earlier gestation based off of his CE numbers. I was surprised to find out that they actually tend to come a few days later.Interestingly though the dams brother has over 900 calfs registered and sports easy calving genetics with high accuracy also backed by 50k testing: CE 10.9(.82 acc) BW -2.1(.91 acc). Even though my heifer and that bull are flush mates, my heifer has been 50k tested and currently has the following EPDs: CE 4.4(.30acc) BW 0.6(.32acc).

Backbone-Thats kinda my feeling on it too. In fact when I submit the DNA test, I will submit Injector as the sire.I cant deny the chance that the mama cow here could contribute to early gestation and easy calving based off of her brothers data.

He is a stocky little bull calf that has a good chance to make it to be a bull. Id put a picture up but my photographer and computer picture applicator are not present at this time

So far the best argument for the AI is that I do have a breeding date that can fit in this scenario and I did not witness the bull cover the cow. I wonder what EPD shifts will occur if any when the parentage is verified.

Cotton1

 

[WalnutCrest]

I had a nearly identical interval on a cow that was given an embryo and then turned in with our bull ... either the embryo calf was 2 weeks late or the live cover calf was a week early. My situation was that it was a live cover calf; I'm betting yours is too.

Good luck.

 

[Nesikep]

How many days to you consider "due"? I found my average here is about 287

At this point, it's unknown which bull caused the pregNancy

 

[cotton1]

Nesi- 283 days is considered normal for Charolais.

PregNancy :lol: :lol2:

 

[dun]

The bull not AI

 

[gizmom]

op: Hope its the AI bull but it really is a coin toss until you get the DNA back.

gizmom

 

[wacocowboy]

My money is on the bull.

 

[MRRherefords]

I would also bet that it is to your herd bull.

 

[cotton1]

So far in the court of popular opinion, the herd bull is winning. So far in the CT familys opinion, the herd bull is winning....

I'm starting to see a pattern.

Think Ill join you Gizmom op:

DNA test is going to be a while..

Cotton1

 

[BK9954]

It would be odd for a heifer to be 12 days overdue, but I don't know almost nothing about Charolais. Does her line have a longer gestation?

had an AI angus heifer 13 days late.

 

[warped04]

I want to vote for the AI because I'm stuck on a feeling.

 

[RanchMan90]

I bet it's a Charolais

 

[Son of Butch]

My calving got off to a late start this year, or a early start this year depending on who the daddy is.
If my math was right (flip a coin) the AI calf should have had a due date of 12/29/2016 and the earliest due date from the herd bull should have been 01/17/2017.

What do you think?

Your math is right and 88% chance (+ or -6%) it's your herd bull's calf... best of luck though that it's the A.I. sire

 

[cotton1]

Thanks for the opinions and well wishes so far. I'm still believing its my herd bulls calf, which is not bad. Only because this particular heifer is not easily replaceable and could be a donor someday did I want to make sure she had a trouble free calving.I didn't AI any other heifers, and only one cow. I AI bred the cow to the herd bull as she came in heat within a couple days of the bull going in.

I am encouraged by the possibility of the calf being his and being early but healthy. We only had one crop off the bull before and calving was trouble free, but his EPDs are not really heifer bull stats.

I'm still working on the wife to get a picture or two up of the subjects here. I do not know how to post pictures, but if I was reading this about somebody else cattle I'd want some pictures.

Anybody ever get DNA with a blood sample? As far as I know the options my breed association accepts tail hair, or ear notches. I've only submitted tail hair to date, but was thinking drawing blood from the tail, like a preg test should be a option. That calf will be 5-6 weeks old before I can get decent hair samples.

Cotton1

 

[dun]

Thanks for the opinions and well wishes so far. I'm still believing its my herd bulls calf, which is not bad. Only because this particular heifer is not easily replaceable and could be a donor someday did I want to make sure she had a trouble free calving.I didn't AI any other heifers, and only one cow. I AI bred the cow to the herd bull as she came in heat within a couple days of the bull going in.

I am encouraged by the possibility of the calf being his and being early but healthy. We only had one crop off the bull before and calving was trouble free, but his EPDs are not really heifer bull stats.

I'm still working on the wife to get a picture or two up of the subjects here. I do not know how to post pictures, but if I was reading this about somebody else cattle I'd want some pictures.

Anybody ever get DNA with a blood sample? As far as I know the options my breed association accepts tail hair, or ear notches. I've only submitted tail hair to date, but was thinking drawing blood from the tail, like a preg test should be a option. That calf will be 5-6 weeks old before I can get decent hair samples.

Cotton1

For bloodtest DNA the Red Angus Association sends a kit, I think it's just a blotter type of deal. I haven;t opened the envelope to check since we won;t be drawing blood for the tests for another couple of weeks.