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alexfarms

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From: Hereford eNews <[email protected]> Sent: Thu 07/23/09 5:31 PM

To:

Subject: Hereford eNews -Special EPD Update Type: Embeded HTML/Text



New EPDs - First Pan American Evaluation

This update is to let you know that the new Fall 2009 EPDs aren't quite ready to be released as we are making some final checks to make sure everything is in order with this historic release of the first Pan American Cattle Evaluation.

Original plans were to release these new numbers last weekend but in benchmarking the results of this run to the Spring 2009 run there were a few items discovered which we are still awaiting answers for. We feel it important to take the necessary steps to be as certain as possible about the integrity of this run prior to releasing any results. We do not have a definite date for release at this time but will send another eNews as soon as the EPDs are ready to be released.
 

Ned Jr.

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I've been wondering how much and in what ways PACE is going to change our average EPD's? What's everyones opinions? I hope it's not a whoops ... that can't be right matter. :shock:
 

rocket2222

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Thats right, the next set of epd's released will include Hereford data from Argentina, Canada and Uruguay.
They say our's not going to change that much, we'll find out shortly.
 
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A

alexfarms

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Ned Jr.":1chk4q44 said:
I've been wondering how much and in what ways PACE is going to change our average EPD's? What's everyones opinions? I hope it's not a whoops ... that can't be right matter. :shock:

It is hard to say. One time with the APHA, they made some major changes to their formulas and all the weight epds went waaaaay down and all the milk epds went way up. I remember talking to a member in Nebraska who was disgusted. He said "now they all look like dairy cattle". I just got to thinking about that email today and I was wondering just what those "few items" were when they state: "a few items discovered which we are still awaiting answers for". Integrity is everything, especially if it becomes obvious that it is absent.
 

SRBeef

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You must be kidding...EPD's from Uruguay and Argentina are going to be blended into US EPD's?
 

rocket2222

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SRBeef":32qebiy2 said:
You must be kidding...EPD's from Uruguay and Argentina are going to be blended into US EPD's?


Nope, we are going global, I think the problem is, there's only about fifty Hereford breeders left in the US, and we need more numbers to make the accuracy's look respectable for the epd lovers, so they said anybody willing to give us data will be included in the next evaluation for free. :lol:

I actually think this will be a good thing.
 

RD-Sam

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I keep trying to find a good Hereford heifer to start with and keep bombing out. :cowboy:
 

SRBeef

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RD-Sam":dvi42c37 said:
I keep trying to find a good Hereford heifer to start with and keep bombing out. :cowboy:

Rocket 2222: "...there's only about fifty Hereford breeders left in the US..."

I was at the Wisconsin Farm Technology Days farm show last week just east of Madison, WI and wandered through the livestock tent where there were exhibitors from the different breeds in the state. I picked up a map showing the farm locations of 104 members of the WI polled Hereford Association. If even half of them have animals for sale (and I bet its more than that) there would be more than 50 Hereford breeders or source for Herefords just in the State of Wisconsin.

I also picked up a sale flyer from a group "Genetic Selection Day Sale" to be held on November 15th at noon in the Great Northern Sale Arena in Fond du Lac, WI. There seem to be a good number of Hereford cows and heifers for sale there...

I think at least in Wisconsin you could find some good registered or commercial Hereford cattle within a couple hours on the telephone. We have a local order buyer who would have his trailer at a paying customers farm within a day or so with probably as many Herefords as you wanted. And fairly reasonably priced. I bought four bred Hereford heifers from him and they've worked out very well.

With all the emphasis lately on black hides bringing "5 cents more at the sale barn" there may not be as many Herefords as blacks at the sale barns but from what I have seen that is not necessarily the place to go buy foundation cattle to build a herd anyway.

A fact of life is that the US Cattle herd in total of ALL BREEDS is at the lowest point in numbers since about 1950. With the structure of the beef industry the way it has been with "heads they win, tails we lose" seeming to be the normal mode of current market operation, there are fewer cattle of all breeds. Look at the dispersals held on many large ranches in the west.

However I believe there are still a lot of Hereford cattle maybe on smaller farms and ranches and not necessarily always coming down the alley at the sale barn. The Hereford has traits that make many of them particularly suited to smaller operations. I think Herefords will be in the middle of a coming transformation of at least a portion of the US beef industry.

It seems to me that one of the keys to success with cattle is finding good, LOCALLY ADAPTED foundation stock to start with. If you want a good Hereford heifer, I'll sell you one to help you get started, as my neighbor did for me. Here's one of my favorite recent pictures.



There seem to me to be way more than 50 Hereford breeders in the US. They may look a bit different than in the past but the quality of the cattle seems to likely to improve as long as we have good data, honestly reported, on locally adapted animals.

If EPD's from other countries can be added to the US data base without affecting current US EPD's then why not. However, I don't think it serves a useful purpose if adding EPD's from a place 1/3 the way around the world produces a sudden skew in the body of data on locally adapted and bred Hereford stock. jmho. Jim
 

Frankie

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It should not matter where the data comes from for Hereford (or other breed) EPDs, as long as it's reported accurately on proper contemporary groups.
 

Brandonm22

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Frankie":txkj9gli said:
It should not matter where the data comes from for Hereford (or other breed) EPDs, as long as it's reported accurately on proper contemporary groups.

Agreed completely. If the number changes as the accuracy increases that just means the number was likely wrong to begin with.
 

RD-Sam

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Not really, sizes and weights of cattle in different parts of the world may be quite different from those in the US, and when you mate US bulls to those cows, it will impact that bulls numbers differently when they are turned in. At least that is how I see it.
 

Frankie

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RD-Sam":3dciqsju said:
Not really, sizes and weights of cattle in different parts of the world may be quite different from those in the US, and when you mate US bulls to those cows, it will impact that bulls numbers differently when they are turned in. At least that is how I see it.

Are you suggesting every Hereford cow in the US is the same size and weight? Or they're all run in the same conditions across the US?
 

rocket2222

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Red Bull Breeder":x902eg36 said:
What if them other countries have the best genetics.

I say bring it on, let's see where we are at, if they are better lets find a way to incorporate some of their genetics over here, the question is, what is better, better epd's doesn't necessarily mean better livestock.
 

Red Bull Breeder

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You are right about the epd's for sure rocket. But Lorenzo sure post pictures of some good looking herfords as does Krensie. I think getting to see and maybe use some new stuff would be a good thing. Would like to have the chance with my Limi's.
 

rocket2222

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RD-Sam":2rd1ps29 said:
Not really, sizes and weights of cattle in different parts of the world may be quite different from those in the US, and when you mate US bulls to those cows, it will impact that bulls numbers differently when they are turned in. At least that is how I see it.

That's what the evaluation is all about, taking different cattle from different areas of the country [ world now ] and through computer models combining all the data to give us a epd that we can use to compare individuals against one another, no matter what part of the counrty or world they come from.
 

RD-Sam

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rocket2222":1zrq7rt0 said:
RD-Sam":1zrq7rt0 said:
Not really, sizes and weights of cattle in different parts of the world may be quite different from those in the US, and when you mate US bulls to those cows, it will impact that bulls numbers differently when they are turned in. At least that is how I see it.

That's what the evaluation is all about, taking different cattle from different areas of the country [ world now ] and through computer models combining all the data to give us a epd that we can use to compare individuals against one another, no matter what part of the counrty or world they come from.

What if you had one of the best bulls in the breed, then a country that is baron started breeding to your bull and knocked his numbers down by half because they have poor forage and poor females?
 

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RD-Sam":3bwcefo1 said:
rocket2222":3bwcefo1 said:
RD-Sam":3bwcefo1 said:
Not really, sizes and weights of cattle in different parts of the world may be quite different from those in the US, and when you mate US bulls to those cows, it will impact that bulls numbers differently when they are turned in. At least that is how I see it.

That's what the evaluation is all about, taking different cattle from different areas of the country [ world now ] and through computer models combining all the data to give us a epd that we can use to compare individuals against one another, no matter what part of the counrty or world they come from.

What if you had one of the best bulls in the breed, then a country that is baron started breeding to your bull and knocked his numbers down by half because they have poor forage and poor females?

The evaluations are based on performance ratios within contemporary groups. So, if the herd in the baron country had two bulls, the best and the average, their calves would be compared. If the best bulls calves weaned off at 300lb and the average bulls calves weaned at 250lb, that would be a positive for the best bulls EPDs and a negative for the average bulls EPDs. It's all relative.
 

rocket2222

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RD-Sam":3u6nmewy said:
rocket2222":3u6nmewy said:
RD-Sam":3u6nmewy said:
Not really, sizes and weights of cattle in different parts of the world may be quite different from those in the US, and when you mate US bulls to those cows, it will impact that bulls numbers differently when they are turned in. At least that is how I see it.

That's what the evaluation is all about, taking different cattle from different areas of the country [ world now ] and through computer models combining all the data to give us a epd that we can use to compare individuals against one another, no matter what part of the counrty or world they come from.

What if you had one of the best bulls in the breed, then a country that is baron started breeding to your bull and knocked his numbers down by half because they have poor forage and poor females?

I'll try to make this short and sweet, the models they use are very complicated, and are designed to take problems like this in to account.
If its on unknown, unproven females with just the one bull used for the contemporary group, that scenario is not likely to happen, whats more likely to happen, if the bulls numbers have been proven in other contemporary groups is the cow herds epd's may be adjusted some, If there are other bulls used in the contemporary group to compare him with, and his calves under perform compared to other bulls in the group, all the bulls in the group will have their epd's adjusted accordingly.
 

rocket2222

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Red Bull Breeder":85a9a2lq said:
You are right about the epd's for sure rocket. But Lorenzo sure post pictures of some good looking herfords as does Krensie. I think getting to see and maybe use some new stuff would be a good thing. Would like to have the chance with my Limi's.


Not to take any thing away from Lorenzo or Knersie, Lorenzo posting pictures of what he thinks are the very best his country has to offer, Knersie is a little different because they are his own home raised cattle, I think I can say that he is known as one of the top breeders in his country, winning awards and shows with his cattle, I think I can safely say that wandering around the countryside in both their countries you would be hard pressed to find lots of cattle with the quality that they are posting pictures of.
 

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