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Ty is riding broncs in Calgary next weekend and we'll be camping at Fraser's-I'll try and get some pictures of some Lad daughters and calves-they have over 400 cows and Murray says some of their best calves are Lads. They used him on a bunch of Black Baldy commercial cows and had some good results. Lad is going to be proven on the commercial side of things alot sooner than the purebred deal which is perfectly fine by me.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with Lad not being registered in the States doesn't that mean that American born calves out of him can't be registered?
 
CPL":3uxmphll said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with Lad not being registered in the States doesn't that mean that American born calves out of him can't be registered?

You are correct - plus I believe a DNA test also has to be on file since he's being used AI.

George
 
LFF":13k3nm9t said:
S&S Farms":13k3nm9t said:
P230 would be a good choice, but I'm hesitant to suggest using him. He does not sire the muscling that most people need , however if you use him with a cow that is dark red and highly muscled then you can have a exceptional calf.


On the other hand; if I have a dark red cow with great muscle,I would not breed away from this!
 
ANAZAZI":1yi03kck said:
LFF":1yi03kck said:
S&S Farms":1yi03kck said:
P230 would be a good choice, but I'm hesitant to suggest using him. He does not sire the muscling that most people need , however if you use him with a cow that is dark red and highly muscled then you can have a exceptional calf.


On the other hand; if I have a dark red cow with great muscle,I would not breed away from this!

P230 adds something to his calves that is extremely hard to find in the Hereford breed. That is a very high amount of marbling. If weight and muscling is all the customer wanted then I would be raising Charlois, Simmental, or Limomsine (spelling). It has been talked about lately that US producers could not compete with South America and Argentenia cattle producers in the pounds market, and if that is true we need to focus on the quality market. Cooler climate is better for depositing marbling. I'm am not advocationg single trait selection but with a cow that has the qualities that rocketts appears to have P230 can be a great choice. I am speaking from some degree of experience because I used P230 on some of my cows. One bull calf at 365 days of age measured a 15 sq. in. ribeye , which is a good size for the Hereford breed.
 
There's some purebred outfits used him last year stateside and I never heard of any troubles registering the calves. I know Fraser's sent in DNA on his mother and 552's should be on file.
 
KNERSIE":11v3jzf5 said:
rocket2222":11v3jzf5 said:
Thanks for all the suggestions. Some of the bulls mentioned i'd planned on using on the next generation [my new bulls calves] and wanted to maybe try something a little different on this calf. I've always liked Harland, his epd's are a very good match for the heifer and I like the way he looks, a beef bull with a little style about him. Its what I looked for when I got my new bull, a beef bull with a good look to him, rather than my last bull who was a show type bull that I thought would add some muscle to his calves. So thank you Herefords.US, I liked your idea.

Harland

Harland.jpg


My new bull

IMG_1508111.jpg

I'd like to hear what advantage you think Harland will have phenotypically over your bull? Unless you have a different goal in mind for the calf?


Well first I guess I'll talk about Harlands top line. What I think most people see here is the effect and not the cause. What he has is a high tail set [this is not to good] coupled with a very strong, high neck attachment [this is good], if you take that high tail set away then picture my bull with his head raised like Harland's you would see about the same top line. Yes the high tail set is a disadvantage. The stronger neck/head that Harland has compared to my bull is to his advantage, although my bull is still young [around 16 months old] I hope is neck will muscle up a little more as he gets older. I would have to say that my bull probably has the bigger rear end, but I still like the shape and length, the way it carries down in to the rear leg on Harland, he just doesn't have as much of it as my bull. My bull may have a little more rib than Harland, but Harland carries just a tad more depth through to his flanks. My bull as the cleaner front end, Harland as a cleaner sheath. I could nit pick some more, legs etc. but I got other post to answer :) and I really don't like picking on other folks livestock as it normally comes back to bite me one way or another. Neither bulls perfect by along shot, but I do think this bull will be good to compare calves with. And hopefully both of them outbreed them selfs.
 
sooknortex":2wl7ipkr said:
I'd like to know, too. I'm speculating that numbers are so important that you are willing to breed to an inferior phenotype bull to have higher numbers in the offspring?

You bull has a better rear quarter, has better muscling, and a better top line than Harland. What's the problem?

My bull as a higher ww, higher yw, more milk, better cem, bigger scrotal and bigger ribeye epds than Harland. Harland has a lower bw and ced, and a better IMF, the two things this calf needs help on are birth weight and IMF, will I use him in part because he helps those epds, you dang right I am.
If I was chasing numbers only I would use this bull pictured below. I think the most widely recomended bull so far. This is a numbers bull. Ribeye, he at or near the very top in all traits except one.
Oh, Knersie, Please don't ask how you would " like to hear what advantage you think Ribeye will have phenotypically over your bull? Unless you have a different goal in mind for the calf?"
Because I don't see any.

ribeye.jpg
 
oakcreekfarms":20yladwt said:
It's fairly easy to get a lot of marbling when you decrease the size of REA.


That statement is probaly better for another post. I certainly would like to see how you are going to greatly increase marbling by lowering the ribeye? I know that I can increase a little, but I'm looking for a large increase.
 
That picture of Harland was taken at about 18 months. Harland has a LOT of length and is a chunk! Looking at Harland at the time of the Harland dispersion, I remember thinking that I would have liked to have seen more frame on him. That was my biggest criticism of him then. But that perspective was from someone that had/has a frame 7+ Keynote son in his pasture. And I have since revised that point of view.

Besides being used extensively by his owners, Harland is also being used by Harrell, Feddes, Shaw, Churchill, Largent, and Colyer. When the data from ALL those calves comes in, the accuracy of Harland's growth and carcass EPDs should be pretty sound - a great choice for anyone to use in their herd to see how their own bulls compare.

Northern Rancher, there are no calves by your bull registered in the American Hereford Record because he's not currently registered in the United States.

From the AHA rules:

Section VI, Rule 5. SEMEN INTEREST IN A BULL DOMICILED IN A
FOREIGN COUNTRY: To use semen or to sell Non-Owner
AI Certificates of Service, the bull must be recorded in the
American Hereford Record by a member of the American
Hereford Association who resides in the US. All DNA profile
rules apply.

I don't know why Genex hasn't already registered him in the US. Probably because no one has asked them to yet - so they could register their calves. But a DNA profile would be required. If CHA rules regarding the use of AI bulls are the same as AHA rules, then it's probable that he already has a DNA profile done in Canada. If not, I imagine one can be done through his semen. If Fraser also has his dam DNA profiled, there shouldn't be a problem.
 
Ribeye calves look good, over all they are deep and thick rear ended. He is not just a numbers bull. I saw him at Kevin's this spring, he is a really nice complete bull.

Kevin wouldn't just use him based on his numbers, the calves have to perform. I would say that his sale was a good example of what people think of his program and his bulls.
 
oakcreekfarms":21hjjuvr said:
Ribeye calves look good, over all they are deep and thick rear ended. He is not just a numbers bull. I saw him at Kevin's this spring, he is a really nice complete bull.

Kevin wouldn't just use him based on his numbers, the calves have to perform. I would say that his sale was a good example of what people think of his program and his bulls.

Looking through his catalog, the rib eye's were definitely my favorite. Are there any cows in milk out of him? Or will that be next spring? Is there any indication of what the udders will be like. I know Kevin is quick to point out that M326's udder quality is a little lower than some of his other bulls.
 
When kevin points out a flaw you need to understand that still puts a cow at above average in most herds. He is trying to get his herd as perfect as possible. The m326 udders don't look like the marshals or progress's but they are still good quality acceptable udders. The hudson cow is a pretty clean cow, I would think the udders will be acceptable, above average, or whatever you would say. I don't think they will be perfect, but that also depends highly on the cows that he gets bred too. But no, he doesn't have daughters in production yet. I am sure kevin will post what he thinks about Ribeye's production if you watch his website.

If you have wondered what the progress cattle are looking like he has some pictures on his website.
 
oakcreekfarms":31sdc2yo said:
When kevin points out a flaw you need to understand that still puts a cow at above average in most herds. He is trying to get his herd as perfect as possible. The m326 udders don't look like the marshals or progress's but they are still good quality acceptable udders. The hudson cow is a pretty clean cow, I would think the udders will be acceptable, above average, or whatever you would say. I don't think they will be perfect, but that also depends highly on the cows that he gets bred too. But no, he doesn't have daughters in production yet. I am sure kevin will post what he thinks about Ribeye's production if you watch his website.

If you have wondered what the progress cattle are looking like he has some pictures on his website.

oakcreek, thanks. I saw those pictures of the progress daughters and they are nice. the phoenix sired one looks good too. There's also an updated picture of rib eye's dam.
 
oakcreekfarms":22vjdtmi said:
Ribeye calves look good, over all they are deep and thick rear ended. He is not just a numbers bull. I saw him at Kevin's this spring, he is a really nice complete bull.

Kevin wouldn't just use him based on his numbers, the calves have to perform. I would say that his sale was a good example of what people think of his program and his bulls.

I've talked to Kevin a couple of times, he's seems like a very honest likable guy, he has some good cattle, I'm glad he had a good sale.
It shows how much I know, if Ribeye had have been born at my place, I'd bet money I would have cut him as a calf. Its probably his biggest money maker, I don't think he'll work for me though.
 
oakcreekfarms":2bfc9bax said:
Did you see him as a calf?



I really don't know. I not sure why that matters, some things don't change that much, from 8 or 9 months old you should be able to tell which direction they're headed, up or down. The things I don't like about him now were there when he was younger. I'm not trying to be a smartass, but just getting thick calves with good numbers really don't cut it for me, I want that little something extra, so I'm trying to pay attention to the little things. I want the carcass data too, but the "bells & whisles" are also important to me. I had a guy tell me a few years back that if he didn't get the Star Lake bull he wanted, he would buy the one I had for sale. He got the Star Lake bull for $1200 more than I was asking for mine. The next time that happens I want the guy to say " i like your bull better than the one I liked at Star Lake, how much you want for him" :)
 

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