Who said simmies are going black...

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plumber_greg":1ueyid0l said:
Jeanne and Cattleman,
Thanks for the info. Now I too am wondering about the Fleckvieh, that's hard to spell. What is the relationship between them and the pureblood simmi? Do I understand correctly that when Cattleman talked about 100% it is still has something else, even though it is considered 100%? I mean can it only really be 99.999999999999999etc%. Hope that reads right, not bashing, just interested. Last question for now, was the Simmental breed an original breed like the like the angus and hereford are considered, or at least what I consider? Thanks gs
If they are papered as Fullblood, they are considered to be 100% - no known "other breeds" in their ancestry. If they are purebred, then they are anywhere from 87.5% to 99.9999999%
And yes, the Simmental is considered one of the oldest "original breeds" and most widely distributed of breeds of cattle in the world, with the herd book dating back to 1806. Some of the other names that they are known as is "Pie Rouge, Montbeliard & Abondance in France"; "Pezzata Rosa in Italy"; and of course the "Fleckvieh in Germany". Actually, the French & Swiss bloodlines were known for their milk & cheese, the German & Austrian were known more for the meat.
When the original "founders" of the ASA set up the regulations for the breed, they decided what strains of Simmental were to be allowed into our books.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":paskdxuk said:
plumber_greg":paskdxuk said:
Jeanne and Cattleman,
Thanks for the info. Now I too am wondering about the Fleckvieh, that's hard to spell. What is the relationship between them and the pureblood simmi? Do I understand correctly that when Cattleman talked about 100% it is still has something else, even though it is considered 100%? I mean can it only really be 99.999999999999999etc%. Hope that reads right, not bashing, just interested. Last question for now, was the Simmental breed an original breed like the like the angus and hereford are considered, or at least what I consider? Thanks gs
If they are papered as Fullblood, they are considered to be 100% - no known "other breeds" in their ancestry. If they are purebred, then they are anywhere from 87.5% to 99.9999999%
And yes, the Simmental is considered one of the oldest "original breeds" and most widely distributed of breeds of cattle in the world, with the herd book dating back to 1806. Some of the other names that they are known as is "Pie Rouge, Montbeliard & Abondance in France"; "Pezzata Rosa in Italy"; and of course the "Fleckvieh in Germany". Actually, the French & Swiss bloodlines were known for their milk & cheese, the German & Austrian were known more for the meat.
When the original "founders" of the ASA set up the regulations for the breed, they decided what strains of Simmental were to be allowed into our books.

In Europe does the Fleckvieh breed have a separate registry.

Abondance, http://www.onfootholidays.co.uk/graphics/library/Abondance cattle.jpg
 
yes, to the best of my knowledge, each strain has it's own registry.
The Simmental from France & Switzerland were the yellow & white spotted (diluted) and the German & Austrian strains were the deep blood red (non diluted), more solid colored than the yellows. That is one of the reasons why the Fleckvieh bulls are so popular in the black programs, because they do not carry the diluter gene. Also, the French & Swiss were more flat muscled (feminine) like a dairy cow. Which fits because they were known for their milk & cheese.
The Flecks have been known to have more calving difficulties than the PB Simmentals, but, like the Amer upgraded PB Simmentals, they have worked to improve that trait. Remember, the true Flecks were really, really, heavy muscled, with real heavy front ends. Not my kind of cattle, but the new modern Flecks are better. JMHO
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":17mpfa6v said:
yes, to the best of my knowledge, each strain has it's own registry.
The Simmental from France & Switzerland were the yellow & white spotted (diluted) and the German & Austrian strains were the deep blood red (non diluted), more solid colored than the yellows. That is one of the reasons why the Fleckvieh bulls are so popular in the black programs, because they do not carry the diluter gene. Also, the French & Swiss were more flat muscled (feminine) like a dairy cow. Which fits because they were known for their milk & cheese.
The Flecks have been known to have more calving difficulties than the PB Simmentals, but, like the Amer upgraded PB Simmentals, they have worked to improve that trait. Remember, the true Flecks were really, really, heavy muscled, with real heavy front ends. Not my kind of cattle, but the new modern Flecks are better. JMHO

I though they must, because like you say the phenotype difference is significant.
 
dun":16rkp76u said:
The Fullblood Pureblood is just as simple. Fullblood is 100% Simmenthal/Fleckvieh/whatever and purelood is less then 100%.
A lot of the Fleck breeders of late are pretty touchy about people calling their Flecks Simenthals. That's what they are but the like to think of them as being distinct

They are a distinct strain and don't use alot of other Simmental blood (in general) in their breeding so I think it's fair for them to want to retain that distinction. A fleckvieh is a simmi but not all simmis are flecks. After all, aren't our Red Angus a selected strain that originated in Aberdeen Angus? Just a thought.
 
Thank you guys. Jeanne, I always thought Simme Valley was a place where you lived!! I was always kind of envious wishing I lived in a named valley or ridge or whatever. Thanks again, now I know more of what you guys talk about. gs
 
But a Fleckvieh isn't registered as a "Fleckvieh" - it is registered as a Fullblood Simmental in the USA. Well, as far as I know, that is. I don't have any.
Plumber - :lol: yes, we live on a high hill but in a little valley on top of the hill (elevation 1400 at top & we're about 1300') - so we thought it was appropriate to call our farm Simme Valley. :banana:
2010-9-24%20overview%20of%20farm%20pix%20sm.jpg
 
I think it's important to note that while there are getting to be more and more Fleckvieh sires that are non diluters it isn't something real common in the breed. The polled gene has also been introduced through a few mutation cattle over the years out of both Germany and Canada. They originated out of Austria and Germany and where bred heavy in Canada through the late 80's and into the 90's with a lot of breeders importing embryo's and semen out of Austria and Germany. Then the South African Fleckvieh's were introduced at a later date. The South Africans were originally German genetics at some point in the past. They have greatly improved there calving ease in the past 15-20 years but are a different type of cattle in that heavier fronts don't necessarily translate in calving issues. I don't mean super heavy front ends but a little more than what most North Americans are used to seeing.
 
yep, I never show her as simmy I show in crossbred she got reserve champion over all out of 20 animals when she was a calf. Then two years ago she got champion cross out of 8 animals. She is one of those cows you wish you had a hundred just like her.
 
ALACOWMAN":2wj3d07t said:
bet shes a rat tail factory, or maybe she has a built in immunity to em :cowboy:

Sorry but your wrong there, being only 1/4 char and being bred to a 3/4 ang. bull, so most of her calves have been black or red, only 1 out of 6 have been gray. Just got to know how to breed them. :2cents:
 
sim.-ang.king":13z5f7ta said:
ALACOWMAN":13z5f7ta said:
bet shes a rat tail factory, or maybe she has a built in immunity to em :cowboy:

Sorry but your wrong there, being only 1/4 char and being bred to a 3/4 ang. bull, so most of her calves have been black or red, only 1 out of 6 have been gray. Just got to know how to breed them. :2cents:
i'll take your word on it :cowboy:
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":11avvpz0 said:
sim.-ang.king":11avvpz0 said:
Angus Cowman":11avvpz0 said:
How is she registered???
all she is is a cross bred cow
Sire was a reg. sim. so I could reg. her
She is registered through the American Simmental Assn. as a percentage 1/2 blood.
Well at least we know she's a Simme on paper.
 
TexasBred":cbj096bz said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley":cbj096bz said:
sim.-ang.king":cbj096bz said:
Sire was a reg. sim. so I could reg. her
She is registered through the American Simmental Assn. as a percentage 1/2 blood.
Well at least we know she's a Simme on paper.
I never said reg. purebred so sorry texasbred don't got me on that one LOL :lol:
 

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