sim.-ang.king
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This cow is 1/2 simmy 1/4 ang 1/4 char, and she is register just don't tell semmental... :lol:
So I don't think simmy is going all black at least not on my farm
Who said simmies are going black...
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This cow is 1/2 simmy 1/4 ang 1/4 char, and she is register just don't tell semmental... :lol:
So I don't think simmy is going all black at least not on my farm
Angus Cowman
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How is she registered???
all she is is a cross bred cow
all she is is a cross bred cow
plumber_greg
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I really don't know all their is to know about Simi registrations, but how can someone calling a crossbred cow a purebred help the Simmi assosation promote their product? Something like that is worse than not cutting a bull calf and selling it on Craigslist to some unknowing city farmer just because it's registered. gs
Angus Cowman
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:nod: :nod: :nod:plumber_greg":3prraznm said:
Red Bull Breeder
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Unless somebody lied alot i would think she would be registered as precentage cow.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
The Simmental breed was brought into the US strickly as semen in the beginning. There are no color restrictions. The first cattle born here were 1/2 bloods, bred back to Simmental, they produced 3/4 bloods, etc. All of these stages are Registered (Registered 1/2 blood, Registered 3/4 blood). They are not called Purebred or Fullblood - they are percentage cattle. There has been a big re-surgence of crossbreeding, so we are getting a lot more registered 1/2 bloods in the registry again.
sim.-ang.king never said she was purebred, he said she is registered & that she is a 1/2 blood. So, she is in the up-grading system. Not sure WHAT sim.-ang.king is trying to say. Yes, there are a lot of black Simmental, but there are also reds, greys, silvers, chocolates, and yes, there are still spotted.
BTW - nice looking 1/2 blood. I don't care if they are spotted, polka dotted purple, just so they are GOOD.
Here's a red bred heifer:
and a mixture colored Purebred group:
sim.-ang.king never said she was purebred, he said she is registered & that she is a 1/2 blood. So, she is in the up-grading system. Not sure WHAT sim.-ang.king is trying to say. Yes, there are a lot of black Simmental, but there are also reds, greys, silvers, chocolates, and yes, there are still spotted.
BTW - nice looking 1/2 blood. I don't care if they are spotted, polka dotted purple, just so they are GOOD.
Here's a red bred heifer:
and a mixture colored Purebred group:
TexasBred
Well-known member
Dang ....simmental beginning to look almost like beefmasters.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
bet shes a rat tail factory, or maybe she has a built in immunity to em :cowboy:
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
:shock: do you mean the grey one???TexasBred":1boep9ma said:
TexasBred
Well-known member
Just referring to the huge variation in colors in general.Jeanne - Simme Valley":3vht7xm2 said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
I understand. 
Our herd used to be even more diversified in color, because we used to have some of the diluted colors - and no, none were "rattails". The diluted color came from the "diluter" gene and that wasn't "necessarily" connected to the rattail gene. I prefer the blaze faces.
Our herd used to be even more diversified in color, because we used to have some of the diluted colors - and no, none were "rattails". The diluted color came from the "diluter" gene and that wasn't "necessarily" connected to the rattail gene. I prefer the blaze faces.
plumber_greg
Well-known member
Jeanne,
Am I remembering correctly that years ago, when the Simmi's were first in the US, that it took a 15/16 animal to be considered a purebred? And that a true pureblood, 100% Simmi, animal wasn't possible in the US? I just remember a neighbor that made a lot of money in the Simmi business, cuz' he had the 15/16 bulls. I didn't know about the 1/2 blood registered animals. Do the bulls, which I guess I'd call a composite bull, sell right along with the others?
Guess I really don't know much about the Simmi Ass., maybe others are interested also. Mind giving us a lesson? gs
Am I remembering correctly that years ago, when the Simmi's were first in the US, that it took a 15/16 animal to be considered a purebred? And that a true pureblood, 100% Simmi, animal wasn't possible in the US? I just remember a neighbor that made a lot of money in the Simmi business, cuz' he had the 15/16 bulls. I didn't know about the 1/2 blood registered animals. Do the bulls, which I guess I'd call a composite bull, sell right along with the others?
Guess I really don't know much about the Simmi Ass., maybe others are interested also. Mind giving us a lesson? gs
cattleman99
Well-known member
I breed mostly Fullbloods which are 100% Simmental. The vast majority being 100% Fleckvieh. There are many different strains of Simmental around the world. In the US 7/8 is considered Purebred. In Canada it's 7/8 for a female and 15/16 for a bull. Simmentals are also used in Dairy's throughout Europe and have started into the Canadian Dairy industry using Fleckvieh Dairy stock which is very different from Fleckvieh Beef genetics. They are probably the most adaptable and accepted breed around the world except for Brahma blood for obvious heat tolerance in many parts of the world. In North America they have a majority of solid black or red genetics but other than a small number in New Zealand and Australia there are few black or red simmentals around the world. While the US has been quick to embrace percentage Simmentals in the past few years they are far and few between North of the Border. There are a few 1/2 and 3/4 bloods around but they aren't easy to find.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
errrr - this has happened to me several times today. I post a reply & it dissapears!
Lets try again.
Imported fullblood semen came to US in 1968. That was used to AI "whatever" and that produced a registered 1/2 blood. The 1/2 blood was then bred to the fullblood semen & you got a 3/4 reg. She produced a 7/8 which was considered a PB if it was a female. Bulls had to be 15/16 to be considered PB. (Now all are called PB at 7/8)
So Purebred Simmental were upgraded using American cattle. Fullbloods started being imported. So, to be considered Fullblood, they have to have at least 5 generations of "Fullblood" - NO upgrading. They may have 5 or 8 generations bred here in Amer., but there is no American cattle bloodlines in their ancestry.
Cornell Univ used to calculate the EPD's and do our Sire Summary. John Pollak, geneticist said (about 10 years ago) he calculated that all the registered black Simmentals had less than 8% Angus in their pedigree. That % may be higher now because of the resurgence of crossbreeding.
There are many Angus donor cows being bred to top Simm bulls - as well as top Simm donors being bred to Angus bulls - producing high selling 1/2 bloods (male & female)
These "high dollar" 1/2 blood breeding stock is not nilly-willy breeding - they are top cattle to top cattle. There are farms in the midwest that have Angus & Simm - and their 1/2 bloods will bring more than the PB. They are a hot item.
Sorry this was so long - hope it helped. We breed Purebred Simmental. I researched our Macho As U bull and his Angus bloodlines went back to around 1970-78.
Lets try again.
Imported fullblood semen came to US in 1968. That was used to AI "whatever" and that produced a registered 1/2 blood. The 1/2 blood was then bred to the fullblood semen & you got a 3/4 reg. She produced a 7/8 which was considered a PB if it was a female. Bulls had to be 15/16 to be considered PB. (Now all are called PB at 7/8)
So Purebred Simmental were upgraded using American cattle. Fullbloods started being imported. So, to be considered Fullblood, they have to have at least 5 generations of "Fullblood" - NO upgrading. They may have 5 or 8 generations bred here in Amer., but there is no American cattle bloodlines in their ancestry.
Cornell Univ used to calculate the EPD's and do our Sire Summary. John Pollak, geneticist said (about 10 years ago) he calculated that all the registered black Simmentals had less than 8% Angus in their pedigree. That % may be higher now because of the resurgence of crossbreeding.
There are many Angus donor cows being bred to top Simm bulls - as well as top Simm donors being bred to Angus bulls - producing high selling 1/2 bloods (male & female)
These "high dollar" 1/2 blood breeding stock is not nilly-willy breeding - they are top cattle to top cattle. There are farms in the midwest that have Angus & Simm - and their 1/2 bloods will bring more than the PB. They are a hot item.
Sorry this was so long - hope it helped. We breed Purebred Simmental. I researched our Macho As U bull and his Angus bloodlines went back to around 1970-78.
jscunn
Well-known member
Jeanne,
Do you remember what Angus bulls Macho as U went back to? Just kinda wondering, too far back to be affected by most of the genetic problems of AM or NH, (AM probably not a problem, NH definitely not a problem)..
Do you remember what Angus bulls Macho as U went back to? Just kinda wondering, too far back to be affected by most of the genetic problems of AM or NH, (AM probably not a problem, NH definitely not a problem)..
Kingfisher
Well-known member
cattleman99 said:
plumber_greg
Well-known member
Jeanne and Cattleman,
Thanks for the info. Now I too am wondering about the Fleckvieh, that's hard to spell. What is the relationship between them and the pureblood simmi? Do I understand correctly that when Cattleman talked about 100% it is still has something else, even though it is considered 100%? I mean can it only really be 99.999999999999999etc%. Hope that reads right, not bashing, just interested. Last question for now, was the Simmental breed an original breed like the like the angus and hereford are considered, or at least what I consider? Thanks gs
Thanks for the info. Now I too am wondering about the Fleckvieh, that's hard to spell. What is the relationship between them and the pureblood simmi? Do I understand correctly that when Cattleman talked about 100% it is still has something else, even though it is considered 100%? I mean can it only really be 99.999999999999999etc%. Hope that reads right, not bashing, just interested. Last question for now, was the Simmental breed an original breed like the like the angus and hereford are considered, or at least what I consider? Thanks gs
redcowsrule33
Well-known member
Kingfisher":8mwax7e6 said:
Short course - Simmentals originated in Switzerland in the Simme Valley region (Simmen Thal in german, hence the name) and were brought into many other regions of Europe over the centuries to cross on their native cattle. Over these centuries the breed was selected for different qualities in different areas of the world to suit their needs, so strains such as Fleckvieh in Germany and Montbeliarde in France (to name only a few) came to be. Still Simmentals, just different strains due to selection pressures. Most of the original US imports for semen were largely from Austria and Switzerland, however some of the other strains came over as well.
Simmentals were originally a dual-purpose type breed, as were many continentals. The Fleckvieh strain in Germany until recently focused more heavily on milk production and less on beef. Many outstanding beef producers were culled as their offspring had poorer milking ability. They have begun to look at beef performance as well as milking performance and hence have family lines now that lean toward milk, beef, or dual purpose. The Fleckvieh in North America have been selected heavily for beef production and only recently have the milking family lines been re-introduced, but mostly into dairy herds, not beef as that level of production is not needed in the beef production model. As you look at examples of the various strains you can appreciate the differences but also how they all go back to the original Simmental lineage. For more info on fleckvieh visit http://www.fleckvieh.de. If you ever find yourself in Bavaria go look them up for a tour. You won't fail to be impressed, regardless of whether you like Fleckvieh or not.
The American Simmental strain is just a recent example of this type of selection pressure that has happened over centuries in other countries. The americans have selected heavily to produce a strain that fits their production needs. The black color was introduced for economic reasons; whether this was right or wrong is a different thread.
From the OKState Website
The breed is known by a variety of names, including "Fleckvieh" in Germany, Austria and Switzerland as well as many other European countries."Pie Rouge", "Montbeliard", and "Abondance" in France; and "Pezzata Rossa" in Italy. The Simmental name is derived from their original location, the Simme Valley of Switzerland. In German, Thal or Tal means valley, thus the name literally means "Simme Valley".
The Fullblood Pureblood is just as simple. Fullblood is 100% Simmenthal/Fleckvieh/whatever and purelood is less then 100%.
A lot of the Fleck breeders of late are pretty touchy about people calling their Flecks Simenthals. That's what they are but the like to think of them as being distinct
The breed is known by a variety of names, including "Fleckvieh" in Germany, Austria and Switzerland as well as many other European countries."Pie Rouge", "Montbeliard", and "Abondance" in France; and "Pezzata Rossa" in Italy. The Simmental name is derived from their original location, the Simme Valley of Switzerland. In German, Thal or Tal means valley, thus the name literally means "Simme Valley".
The Fullblood Pureblood is just as simple. Fullblood is 100% Simmenthal/Fleckvieh/whatever and purelood is less then 100%.
A lot of the Fleck breeders of late are pretty touchy about people calling their Flecks Simenthals. That's what they are but the like to think of them as being distinct
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
There are no "known" Angus sires in his pedigree - his ancestors were developed breeding commercial cows to Fullblood Simm bulls. I actually found one base cow that was 1/2 Angus & 1/2 HH. Remember, back in the late 60's & 70's, you were not going to find a PB Angus breeder breeding his reg. cow to the new breed. Now, it happens all the time.jscunn":5vj0vmzr said:
The Amer Simm Assn. follows all pedigrees as to any possibility of a genetic defect. If you look up any reg. # of a Simm - their sheet is color coded to let you know if they are clear of defects thru testing, clear of defects thru pedigree, suspect, etc. ASA stays on top of all the other breed's genetic defects because there are a lot of % cattle on the ASA books of registry. Any calf wanting to be registered in ASA from "unknown" status or from a "carrier" must be tested prior to be able to register that calf.
