Central Fl Cracker
Well-known member
I am Just curious who are the cow/calf operators and who are the feeder/stocker cattle operators on the boards?
Who on the boards run stocker cattle?
- Thread starter Central Fl Cracker
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klingoncowboy4
Active member
More of a hobby operation but still supplies a few calves to the local auctions.
mnmtranching
Well-known member
Cow/calf, selling calves at 7 and 10 months.
mnmt
mnmt
Central Fl Cracker
Well-known member
bcox":11l4f7xe said:
bcox
What weight do you think they will be in September and why Heifers in lieu of Steers?
In the past, I average about 150 lbs a head from April till the end of August. (Heifers)
I keep heifers in case their maybe a drop in the market. Instead of loosing my a$$, I will make cows out of them or sell them to some of the surrounding farmers who are looking for replacements.
I'm just being conservitive.
bcox
I keep heifers in case their maybe a drop in the market. Instead of loosing my a$$, I will make cows out of them or sell them to some of the surrounding farmers who are looking for replacements.
I'm just being conservitive.
bcox
Double J Cattle
Well-known member
That sounds like a good backup plan. Also steers are out of alot of peoples price range on the small scale. I ran steers and heifers in seperate pastures a few years ago and did better with the steers. Just cow/calf now.
Central Fl Cracker
Well-known member
bcox":2c8fzpzu said:
I am learning something every day thanks bcox.
Bama
Well-known member
Not trying to sound like a smartellic but I run what I think I can make the most money on. It changes from season to season. If I'm at a sale and see a bred cow coming through I figure what it will cost me to get the calf out and at what price I can get her for. Sometimes I go this route and sometimes I go the pair route. I also buy stockers and try to predict the uncoming market and what it will cost me to get them there. Currently I'm heavy into stockers but by the end of the year it could be something totally differant. I'll admit I'm a basket case tightwad, but I follow the money. Folks pick at me and say I can spot a dime laying on the ground across the parking lot. I will admit I wouldn't give a quarter to see a fire ant eat a bale of hay.
Central Fl Cracker
Well-known member
Bama
I agree it is better to chase what makes the most money but I do not have the time for a cow/calf operation.
A couple of questions bor you and bcox.
1. What weight do you normally target when you are buying.
2. Do you buy preconditioned heifers.
3. What is your target weight when you go to sell
4. What size of holding pen do you use
5. How long do you keep them in the holding pen before you turn them out to pasture
6. What's the best breed for stockers
Sorry about so many questions but I am still learning.
I agree it is better to chase what makes the most money but I do not have the time for a cow/calf operation.
A couple of questions bor you and bcox.
1. What weight do you normally target when you are buying.
2. Do you buy preconditioned heifers.
3. What is your target weight when you go to sell
4. What size of holding pen do you use
5. How long do you keep them in the holding pen before you turn them out to pasture
6. What's the best breed for stockers
Sorry about so many questions but I am still learning.
Herefordcross
Well-known member
We are a cow calf operation, sell all calves in april
Central Fl Cracker
Well-known member
Bama
From the stocker magazine
Market Perspective
No Betting On The Come... For Now
"The last few years, time has usually saved you if you're a margin operator (feeder or stocker), now it will be against you," says Derrell Peel, Oklahoma State University Extension livestock marketing specialist. "There's no more betting on the come."
That's the quintessential summary of cattle-industry economics now compared to last year. The market is running away from margin operators because supplies are increasing significantly relative to demand.
"The biggest difference today than at this time last year is we have about 10% more cattle on feed heading into the summer, which is record large for this time of year," explains Mike Miller, Cattle-Fax director of research and education.
Not only is a wall of increased supply set to hit the market during what are historically the softest market months of the year, it's coming at a time when high breakevens already have feeders losing around $100/head (more on yearlings, less on calf-feds, Miller says).
However, Peel believes the record April 1 cattle-on-feed numbers make reality appear darker than it actually is. Though numbers are up, he says it's not because the cattle inventory is 9%-10% larger than predicted but because more calves were forced into the feedlot earlier than anticipated by drought and a lack of stocker pasture.
"We started the year with a cattle inventory 1.7% larger than in 2005. We'll add maybe another 1-1.5% to those numbers with feeder calves from Canada. So, we have the capability for feeder cattle supplies to be 4-4.5% larger this year, but not 9%," Peel says.
Either way, Miller adds, "We're still in really good shape from a demand perspective, but probably not good enough to offset the supplies we see coming toward us."
From the stocker magazine
Market Perspective
No Betting On The Come... For Now
"The last few years, time has usually saved you if you're a margin operator (feeder or stocker), now it will be against you," says Derrell Peel, Oklahoma State University Extension livestock marketing specialist. "There's no more betting on the come."
That's the quintessential summary of cattle-industry economics now compared to last year. The market is running away from margin operators because supplies are increasing significantly relative to demand.
"The biggest difference today than at this time last year is we have about 10% more cattle on feed heading into the summer, which is record large for this time of year," explains Mike Miller, Cattle-Fax director of research and education.
Not only is a wall of increased supply set to hit the market during what are historically the softest market months of the year, it's coming at a time when high breakevens already have feeders losing around $100/head (more on yearlings, less on calf-feds, Miller says).
However, Peel believes the record April 1 cattle-on-feed numbers make reality appear darker than it actually is. Though numbers are up, he says it's not because the cattle inventory is 9%-10% larger than predicted but because more calves were forced into the feedlot earlier than anticipated by drought and a lack of stocker pasture.
"We started the year with a cattle inventory 1.7% larger than in 2005. We'll add maybe another 1-1.5% to those numbers with feeder calves from Canada. So, we have the capability for feeder cattle supplies to be 4-4.5% larger this year, but not 9%," Peel says.
Either way, Miller adds, "We're still in really good shape from a demand perspective, but probably not good enough to offset the supplies we see coming toward us."
If you don't have time for cow/calves
You probably don't have time for many stockers unless they have been pre-conditioned.
In years past you could get by with the "do or die" system---- if you had lots of high quality pasture. All calves know how to eat grass- and with lots of room to spread out- load outbreaks are decreased.
And With the cheap gains you could afford to loose some calves along.
The high cost of calves means that you cannot afford to use the "do or die" approach and pencil out reliably.
So now its either go labor intensive for the first 60 days or go with preconditioned calves.
As far as gain--- thats hard to say
It depends mostly on how their nutritional needs are being surpassed.
And that can vary from one farm to the next.............
The ideal wt bought depends on your siituation-- If you have lots of high quality feed and room - and the time(handling and length of) and expertise to keep the "candy asses" alive. Go smaller and get more gain for your intitial investment.
Of course you have to factor in higher cost/lb of smaller calves; cost/lb of gain and interest and labor and roll over time .To see if extending time and going smaller is really worth it.
If you have limited feed inputs(quality or quantity)and time and expertise-- go with the 5-6 wts.
As far as selling the open market is a little stronger for the 7-8 wts. If you have a whole load you can market larger calves
private treaty.
My target wt to sell--- is when I see a good profit or I get the load sold to a buyer or I am running out of grass
If I had limited inputs and was just going for slow cheap "so-so pasture" gains- I would go with heiffers. If my goal was to put as much wt on as I could(without getting them fat) I would stick with steers.
There is no best breed for stockers--- some you sell cheaper but then you bought them cheaper too. Overall the balcks and baldies sell the best.
Greeenhorns should steer clear of excitable breeds.
As for pen size--and how to make use of it--- that really depends on what your goals are and the type of calf you buy and how many.
You probably don't have time for many stockers unless they have been pre-conditioned.
In years past you could get by with the "do or die" system---- if you had lots of high quality pasture. All calves know how to eat grass- and with lots of room to spread out- load outbreaks are decreased.
And With the cheap gains you could afford to loose some calves along.
The high cost of calves means that you cannot afford to use the "do or die" approach and pencil out reliably.
So now its either go labor intensive for the first 60 days or go with preconditioned calves.
As far as gain--- thats hard to say
It depends mostly on how their nutritional needs are being surpassed.
And that can vary from one farm to the next.............
The ideal wt bought depends on your siituation-- If you have lots of high quality feed and room - and the time(handling and length of) and expertise to keep the "candy asses" alive. Go smaller and get more gain for your intitial investment.
Of course you have to factor in higher cost/lb of smaller calves; cost/lb of gain and interest and labor and roll over time .To see if extending time and going smaller is really worth it.
If you have limited feed inputs(quality or quantity)and time and expertise-- go with the 5-6 wts.
As far as selling the open market is a little stronger for the 7-8 wts. If you have a whole load you can market larger calves
private treaty.
My target wt to sell--- is when I see a good profit or I get the load sold to a buyer or I am running out of grass
If I had limited inputs and was just going for slow cheap "so-so pasture" gains- I would go with heiffers. If my goal was to put as much wt on as I could(without getting them fat) I would stick with steers.
There is no best breed for stockers--- some you sell cheaper but then you bought them cheaper too. Overall the balcks and baldies sell the best.
Greeenhorns should steer clear of excitable breeds.
As for pen size--and how to make use of it--- that really depends on what your goals are and the type of calf you buy and how many.
Central Fl Cracker
Well-known member
Howdyjabo
I agree on going the pre-conditioned route and I do have a lot of good pasture which is about 135 usable ac. The pasture is fenced around the whole pasture and I am in the process of cross fencing the pastures into 7 or 10 ac. paddocks. I read the book from the guy in MS. wrote and he keeps them in the holding pen for 30 days which seems like a long time. He also buys his stockers in December which kind of surprised me.
I agree on going the pre-conditioned route and I do have a lot of good pasture which is about 135 usable ac. The pasture is fenced around the whole pasture and I am in the process of cross fencing the pastures into 7 or 10 ac. paddocks. I read the book from the guy in MS. wrote and he keeps them in the holding pen for 30 days which seems like a long time. He also buys his stockers in December which kind of surprised me.
#1 I usually try to buy in the 500-600 lbs. range.
By the time they are 500 - 600 lbs. they most likely have been, but not always, weaned. I have spent days looking for cattle that have not been weaned. Its not fun. Especially if you dont have much time.
Also, 500-600 lbs cattle stay in my 4 strand of barbed wire fence better than 350-400 lbs. cattle do.
As I mentioned earlier I only average about 150 lbs. a head with my heifers. By the middle of August they will be weighing around 650 - 700 lbs. I like selling at this weight becasue I can still manage one load with my truck and trailer and its about the size the buyers at the local sale like.
#2 I have bought both preconditioned and non preconditioned cattle.
It seems to me that fat cattle lose more weight or "shrink" when you first put them on grass. I try to buy cattle that are not too skinny and not too fat.
#4 I use about a 25' X 40' pen with a cross fence in the middle and head gate chute to the side. The upper section is attached to the barn and the lower section is attached to a loading chute. The head gate doubles as part of the loading chute. This allows me to keep the cattle seperate when doctoring them.
I keep all new sale barn cattle penned for 7-10 days. This is normally how long shipping fever takes to develope.
#6 The cheap breed
This really depends on what sells best in your area. Here in WV, Angus, Charlois, Limosine, Herford or a cross of any of these does well here.
IMO Charlois seems to put on the weight quicker than the rest which is what you want in a feeder operation.
Angus is what everyone here wants. You cant go wrong with either of the two.
[/quote]
Sorry,
I didnt finish my thought on preconditioning...
If you dont buy them preconditioned you should do it yourself.
If you dont have the facilities you can always worm and vaccinate at the sale barn before you bring them home. (That is if you buy from a sale barn) Most places I have been have headgates at the facility you can use if they dont do it for you. Sometime you have to wait your turn but its not hard to pour ivomec on their backs or give a shot under the skin.
It seems to be better to do it yourself and avoid any premium for buying them that way.
Most of your feedlot buyers prefer cattle that have been wormed and vaccinated.
bcox
I didnt finish my thought on preconditioning...
If you dont buy them preconditioned you should do it yourself.
If you dont have the facilities you can always worm and vaccinate at the sale barn before you bring them home. (That is if you buy from a sale barn) Most places I have been have headgates at the facility you can use if they dont do it for you. Sometime you have to wait your turn but its not hard to pour ivomec on their backs or give a shot under the skin.
It seems to be better to do it yourself and avoid any premium for buying them that way.
Most of your feedlot buyers prefer cattle that have been wormed and vaccinated.
bcox
Central Fl Cracker
Well-known member
Thanks guys you have taught me a lot more that reading the book " Stocker cattle for Profit" or whatever it is called. He talks a lot about margins and such and trying to buy replacements before he is sure he is making a profit. A very good book some sections totally lost me which does not take much.
Everbody that runs stockers keep the info coming so you can educate this cracker and Caustic will quit calling me a cubicle cowboy. :lol:
Everbody that runs stockers keep the info coming so you can educate this cracker and Caustic will quit calling me a cubicle cowboy. :lol:
"It seems to be better to do it yourself and avoid any premium for buying them that way. "
Just so we are talking apples and not oranges-- when I hear backgrounding I am thinking in terms of tractor trailer loads- not just tinkering with a few head.
For people with proper handling and holding pens and the experience to get calves on feed and healhty and a cheap feed source-- I agree with Bcox
But For someone missing any one of the above-- doing it yourself is a recipe for disaster.Not to mention most times a preconditioner can do everything cheaper and better-- than the average person could- so it ends up making them money in the end.
And around here the grazers can use pre-conditioners to be able to buy the calves a month or two before the grass is avaiable and beat the RUSH(when everyones grass(or wheat) comes in) and usually get them bought alot cheaper.
5-6wts that have ben preconditioned and comingled should be able to go straight out to pasture-- unless your fences are real iffy or you share a penatrable fenceline with other cattle .
If the fences are iffy I might would think about penning them overnight IFFFFFFF the pens were dry and clean and had feed and water available. If not I'd take my cahnces and turn them out anyhow. Biggest thing you want is to give them a place to relax eat and drink and get confortable as quickly as possible.
If they were preconditioned right and you have any luck at all---- all you should need to do is use some kind of fly control .Then sit back and watch them eat and grow.
Just so we are talking apples and not oranges-- when I hear backgrounding I am thinking in terms of tractor trailer loads- not just tinkering with a few head.
For people with proper handling and holding pens and the experience to get calves on feed and healhty and a cheap feed source-- I agree with Bcox
But For someone missing any one of the above-- doing it yourself is a recipe for disaster.Not to mention most times a preconditioner can do everything cheaper and better-- than the average person could- so it ends up making them money in the end.
And around here the grazers can use pre-conditioners to be able to buy the calves a month or two before the grass is avaiable and beat the RUSH(when everyones grass(or wheat) comes in) and usually get them bought alot cheaper.
5-6wts that have ben preconditioned and comingled should be able to go straight out to pasture-- unless your fences are real iffy or you share a penatrable fenceline with other cattle .
If the fences are iffy I might would think about penning them overnight IFFFFFFF the pens were dry and clean and had feed and water available. If not I'd take my cahnces and turn them out anyhow. Biggest thing you want is to give them a place to relax eat and drink and get confortable as quickly as possible.
If they were preconditioned right and you have any luck at all---- all you should need to do is use some kind of fly control .Then sit back and watch them eat and grow.
