WHO MADE WHO bull???

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ranchman42

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WHO MADE WHO
We bred a lot of our cows too Who Made Who (maine bull) A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. Last year we had around 35 calve as heifers. They were good, but not outstanding, like I hoped. This fall we had 9 come in open..
I think this was the WORST desion I have made as a cattle producer.. My neighbor likes the "frame" of the cows. But it doesn't make any sence to deal with these cattle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want to keep A.I. ing some for 4-H calfs.. For my kids.. However.. I don't want this any more...
Are thier any bulls in the breed that will produce a fertile, good momma cow.. While still haveing club calfs WITH GROWTH????
THANKS
 

EAT BEEF

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I would use a bull like wmw to produce the show calf,not really the club calf momma.I think you will have better luck if you use a simm-angus or maine-angus f1 cow and bred her to wmw or heatwave or whatever is hot this year.Not alot of the really good club calves ever make that good of a cow even in a pampered enviroment.
 

CPL

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Is everything else in working order? Vaccinations, mineral program, was the bull you used given a breeding soundness exam? Was your herd bull even old enough to service 35 (plus ?) cows in the amount of time you gave him? To me I see a lot more variables than just a particular AI bull produces infertile daughters. There are many quality maine bulls out there that actually have use after the show ring. Do a little research to find the one best suited for you.
 
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ranchman42

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I belive my mineral program to be quite good. We run around 450 momma cows. the first, second, and thinner cows are always seperated for the herd and feed extra. This year my open rate was around 8% higher than past years.. The cows that hurt me was the Who Made Who heifers .. those ran around 31% open
Just wondering if anyone had problems with daughters that didn't breed back...???
 

Ned Jr.

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Interesting!!! I'm not a club calf breeder but I've always heard Who daughter's make good cows. I've always heard the main problem with Who calves is their soundness. It sounds like you put them threw the real world test and they failed miserably. Might be cheaper to let others play the club calf game and just buy your kids some club calves. Then when you go to the fair and hear the judge tell the crowd "this is what the industry needs" you can chuckle to yourself. That's what I do knowing the calf was probably cut out of a cow, is lucky to be able to walk, lucky to not have any visible genetic defects and be the one of many that actually grew. Now I can ad to the list lucky to even be conceived. :shock:
 

grand chaser09

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ranchman42":1x0yybc3 said:
WHO MADE WHO
We bred a lot of our cows too Who Made Who (maine bull) A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. Last year we had around 35 calve as heifers. They were good, but not outstanding, like I hoped. This fall we had 9 come in open..
I think this was the WORST desion I have made as a cattle producer.. My neighbor likes the "frame" of the cows. But it doesn't make any sence to deal with these cattle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want to keep A.I. ing some for 4-H calfs.. For my kids.. However.. I don't want this any more...
Are thier any bulls in the breed that will produce a fertile, good momma cow.. While still haveing club calfs WITH GROWTH????
THANKS

i like wmw heifers[end up being pretty good mommas] not the steers they normally have leg/feet problems.
if you want black clubbies that are gonna grow go with money shot, monopoly, paddy o malley, i am legend, and myer myer.
if you might want some color go with johnny walker red, gold rush, crimson tide, rain maker[should throw blues].
 

Jovid

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I have a Red Poll bull that I will make you some club calves that will work in the pasture when you are done with them.

Stevie_Wonder_705.jpg
 

houstoncutter

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Jovid":2w0xns3l said:
I have a Red Poll bull that I will make you some club calves that will work in the pasture when you are done with them.

Stevie_Wonder_705.jpg
Sorry Jovid, good looking bull, but the judges dont like red polls either
 

Third Row

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Just wondering if anyone had problems with daughters that didn't breed back...???

I've never had an issue with WMW daughters and you're the first person I've heard complain about them. He's actually got quite a repuation for his daughters now.

They were good, but not outstanding, like I hoped.

There wouldn't be enough shows if all it took to make an outstanding show calf was to stick some of the easiest to get semen in the world in a few cows.
 

*Cowgirl*

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Please keep in mind that the bull only contributes half of the genetics. You can breed the best bull on Earth to a sorry cow and still get a sorry calf.

That in mind, I too have used WMW on some first calf heifers, but having mostly bull calves, haven't kept any. Like the rest of the posters, I have heard good things about his daughters though.

In response to your quest for a good club calf BW bull, I like Ali (Maine), Northern Lite (Chi - less clubby, but I like him. He is owned by a member of these boards)
I also have recently begun using Easy Out (Chi) and CMAC Tyson (Maine) on heifers, we'll see how that works out
For mature cows: Hannibal (Reg. Chi), Alias (Smoky Chi), CMAC Hard Core (Maine), Strictly Business {on some cows} (ChiMaine), Mossy Oak (Chi)
Usually, we go to a low BW Chiangus(no club) or straight Angus on heifers, and wait for the clubbies until they are a bit older

Good luck!

Club calf bulls, great for making those lousey runts they like at showring, but worthless for most anything else.
:roll:
 

houstoncutter

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*Cowgirl*":14kegle7 said:
Please keep in mind that the bull only contributes half of the genetics. You can breed the best bull on Earth to a sorry cow and still get a sorry calf.

That in mind, I too have used WMW on some first calf heifers, but having mostly bull calves, haven't kept any. Like the rest of the posters, I have heard good things about his daughters though.

In response to your quest for a good club calf BW bull, I like Ali (Maine), Northern Lite (Chi - less clubby, but I like him. He is owned by a member of these boards)
I also have recently begun using Easy Out (Chi) and CMAC Tyson (Maine) on heifers, we'll see how that works out
For mature cows: Hannibal (Reg. Chi), Alias (Smoky Chi), CMAC Hard Core (Maine), Strictly Business {on some cows} (ChiMaine), Mossy Oak (Chi)
Usually, we go to a low BW Chiangus(no club) or straight Angus on heifers, and wait for the clubbies until they are a bit older

Good luck!

Club calf bulls, great for making those lousey runts they like at showring, but worthless for most anything else.
:roll:


I will stand by my statement! Take the bulls and cows that produce the champions in the open division of most stockshows and put em in pasture under real world conditions..They would wither up and blow away... They have no guts to em......bulls that look like steers and you expect to get good preforming cattle outa that semen....aint gonna happen
 

capt

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I bred lots of cows for customers to WMW and got lots of reports that they liked the steer calves for showing. Most also showed the heifer calves and never really worried about making cows out of them. Did have one customer keep a nice heifer out of a really good reg. Angus cow that did not settle. Keep in mind that WMW was the result of crossing four breeds of cattle and who knows for sure just what kind of track record of fertility was behind the deal. I do know that his semen was some of the better quality clubbie type put out there as conception rates proved in my experience, but that does not guarantee fertility on down the road. I would guess from the breed background that one could see heavy milking daughters as well as lite milking daughters, there could be fleshing ability problems despite the small frame score, there could be management or disposition issues that affect fertility. In this one case, I would guess that the majority of the cowherd these WMW daughters worked in were not clubbie related and have a well documented track record of good fertility in a harsh environment. Might have been too harsh for WMW daughters, I did have some customers at high altitude have some brisket issues with WMW. Anyhow, just my two cents, take it for what it is worth.
 
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ranchman42

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What club bulls do you think would be good for high elevation? We run some of these cows to 11000 ft Do I have another problem on the horision? Thanks.



I bred lots of cows for customers to WMW and got lots of reports that they liked the steer calves for showing. Most also showed the heifer calves and never really worried about making cows out of them. Did have one customer keep a nice heifer out of a really good reg. Angus cow that did not settle. Keep in mind that WMW was the result of crossing four breeds of cattle and who knows for sure just what kind of track record of fertility was behind the deal. I do know that his semen was some of the better quality clubbie type put out there as conception rates proved in my experience, but that does not guarantee fertility on down the road. I would guess from the breed background that one could see heavy milking daughters as well as lite milking daughters, there could be fleshing ability problems despite the small frame score, there could be management or disposition issues that affect fertility. In this one case, I would guess that the majority of the cowherd these WMW daughters worked in were not clubbie related and have a well documented track record of good fertility in a harsh environment. Might have been too harsh for WMW daughters, I did have some customers at high altitude have some brisket issues with WMW. Anyhow, just my two cents, take it for what it is worth.
 

*Cowgirl*

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houstoncutter- I'm honestly not in the mood to argue with you, as it is obvious that you are narrow minded and have little or no experience with show calves. Yes, there are some not fit to reproduce, but there are also some darn good cattle that come out of the show ring.

ranchman42- I really don't know about sires at that high of an altitude....what breed of cows do you run, and how do they do? I may be mistaken, but I would think that if the cow thrives at 11000 feet, that most of her calves would be okay especially if you're aiming for clubby type steers who won't be around very long.....but I could be wrong as there are not many mountains like that in Middle Tennessee ;-)
 

capt

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Brisket disease can always be a problem, even when you do your best to stay on top of it. I got really good reports all around on Ali, but since he is not available any more on to the next one. I will do some checking on the latest and post results. I tend to recommend those that are more proven and not the current hot popular bull especially for those going to high altitude. Let someone else carry the risk on an unproven commodity.
 

houstoncutter

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*Cowgirl*":aw3r69fi said:
houstoncutter- I'm honestly not in the mood to argue with you, as it is obvious that you are narrow minded and have little or no experience with show calves. Yes, there are some not fit to reproduce, but there are also some darn good cattle that come out of the show ring.

ranchman42- I really don't know about sires at that high of an altitude....what breed of cows do you run, and how do they do? I may be mistaken, but I would think that if the cow thrives at 11000 feet, that most of her calves would be okay especially if you're aiming for clubby type steers who won't be around very long.....but I could be wrong as there are not many mountains like that in Middle Tennessee ;-)



Narrow minded.....guilty as charged......I have no tolerence for cattle that cant get the job done........no matter what some steer jockey judge wants to say.....If those club calf bulls could get it done in the real world, semen would be flying outa the tanks.....but those type of bulls have been tried and they have been found to be wanting ....Its not a eating contest....its can a bull cover 30 head of cattle in 30days.....or can a cow breed ,calf and rebreed on time in real world conditions :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
 
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