Which is more profitable? Beef or dairy?

[burroughs85]

Most organic dairy's I've seen around usually are the biggest slim balls around. Just cause it's labeled organic doesn't mean they don't pull there strings cheat the system. I'm sure there's guys out there that are legit and do it by the book but as randall said lower production and higher cost, I'll also throw more on to that alot unhealthier of animals. Up here we call organic dairy's last chance farming cause it's always the guys that have let there land barn and cattle go down hill and try cashing in on that premium for one last chance. Have you ever seen a truly organic dairy cow? Look frail nasty unhealthy. Let alone organic corn? Short full of weeds and grass no cob.... I'm sorry I'm pro conventional farming. It hasn't been a issue for how many years why change it.

Do we have to put up with chemical fertilizers? The skinny cow is not meager because she is organic, lacking foods in her diet that were exposed to toxic chemicals. She might just be hungry. How was farming done before the advent of growth hormones, chemical pesticides and fertilizers anyway? I believe in Amish farming: horsechit and cowchit makes the best fertilizer for crops.

Here is a mom-and-pop organic dairy and those cows look plenty fat and healthy to me. Look at the pretty green grass and rolling hills. The cows look even more attractive than that farm woman in the video. I'm glad the animals don't wallow in and bed down in dung.

 

[TominTX]

I know lots of people who make money in dairy, but not everyone can do it.

I agree, dairy can be profitable, and there are some small dairy's in my area that seem to do really well. However, you had better plan to work full time 7 days a week. Not that beef cows don't require 7 day inputs, but there is a lot more flexibility.

 

[burroughs85]

Another organic dairy: clover fed, clean pastures, minimum farmed grains, if any, in diet.

 

[Buck Randall]

Another organic dairy: clover fed, clean pastures, minimum farmed grains, if any, in diet.

I've been on organic dairies. The cows are no cleaner, healthier, or happier than they are on conventional dairies. Nobody makes a promotional video at a farm where cows stand in hock-deep manure under a cloud of flies.

I've got nothing against organic farmers, but the "feel good" aspects of it are mostly marketing.

 

[Hardnosecattleco]

Do we have to put up with chemical fertilizers? The skinny cow is not meager because she is organic, lacking foods in her diet that were exposed to toxic chemicals. She might just be hungry. How was farming done before the advent of growth hormones, chemical pesticides and fertilizers anyway? I believe in Amish farming: horsechit and cowchit makes the best fertilizer for crops.

Here is a mom-and-pop organic dairy and those cows look plenty fat and healthy to me. Look at the pretty green grass and rolling hills. The cows look even more attractive than that farm woman in the video. I'm glad the animals don't wallow in and bed down in dung.

We don't have to put fertilizer and pesticides on our crops but when your limited on acres to feed your animals is where fertilizer comes in play also manure only offers so many nutrients not all of them that such crops require. We use pesticides cause when that worm or bug comes in and trust taking our crop that we invested our money into we have to fight back. Organic is for some people but not for me.

 

[Rafter S]

Do we have to put up with chemical fertilizers? The skinny cow is not meager because she is organic, lacking foods in her diet that were exposed to toxic chemicals. She might just be hungry. How was farming done before the advent of growth hormones, chemical pesticides and fertilizers anyway? I believe in Amish farming: horsechit and cowchit makes the best fertilizer for crops.

Here is a mom-and-pop organic dairy and those cows look plenty fat and healthy to me. Look at the pretty green grass and rolling hills. The cows look even more attractive than that farm woman in the video. I'm glad the animals don't wallow in and bed down in dung.

That all sounds good, and I know that people farmed just fine before we had pesticides and commercial fertilizer. However, they were mostly just raising enough crops and livestock to feed their own families, with maybe a little bit extra to sell in town. There was a much larger percentage of the population involved in agriculture back then.

 

[gusea305]

Raw milk? I don't know. A gallon of generic at my local SW Oklahoma Walmart is about $2.45 for skim milk and about $4.94/gal. for a "name brand" like Hiland in Oklahoma. Horizon Organic is a whopping $5.47 for a measly half gallon. I don't think farmers are getting rich off these fancy-label milks, some middleman must be skimming the cream off the deal somewhere. I don't see how humble Oklahomans can afford $5.00 on up for even a gallon-size thing of milk. I get the cheap generic stuff in the big gallon size. Breakfast cereal prices is also a rip-off too: generics vs name brands for a box full grain, cereal grasses, cattle food. Meyenberg goat milk is $4.54 for a measly quart.

Not exactly what I was asking.

Can you sell milk off the farm on your state? I ran@ a few dairy cows with a small beef herd for a few years. I was getting $8 a gallon milking only in the morning. I would turn out calves with mommas after milking and separate them at night where they could see eachother but not nurse. The milkers paid for the whole herd and I had all the milk, cheese and beef I could eat.

The price is at $8 a half gallon now, here.

It sounds like you want to put a commercial dairy together though. That is a totally different animal than what I know about.

 

[burroughs85]

Not exactly what I was asking.

Can you sell milk off the farm on your state? I ran@ a few dairy cows with a small beef herd for a few years. I was getting $8 a gallon milking only in the morning. I would turn out calves with mommas after milking and separate them at night where they could see eachother but not nurse. The milkers paid for the whole herd and I had all the milk, cheese and beef I could eat.

The price is at $8 a half gallon now, here.

It sounds like you want to put a commercial dairy together though. That is a totally different animal than what I know about.

Can I sell milk off the farm in my state? I don't know. It sounds like organic farming has low feasibility for large-scale operations marketing foods for public consumption. The reason why most people can't get the most healthful farmed foods (using true organic farming as that gold standard) is that it is not within the means of most people to pay such high organic food prices and that there are too many people in this world in numbers to begin with. I had a vision of producing animal-cruelty-free organic foods for the masses, but I don't know if that is even possible. Having a farm with cows hock deep in manure is not what I fancy. I fancy a lot of green pasture. I fancy cows on clean bedding. I don't fancy cowchit piling up everywhere. The barnyard cowchit can be collected by a laborer daily with a wheelbarrow and a shovel and composted for crops. We lived healthier lifestyles when there were many fewer people in the world and a much greater percentage of people in ag, indeed. Mass producing things from cars to food means a loss in quality control often. To answer your question, a commercial (true organic) dairy is what I had in mind if that's how you define it. Who can afford to pay $11-12/gallon for "certified organic" milk at the supermarket? A bank executive? It sounds like the organic operations already in existence now cater only to the rich and can only do that to stay in business.

 

[Buck Randall]

Can I sell milk off the farm in my state? I don't know. It sounds like organic farming has low feasibility for large-scale operations marketing foods for public consumption. The reason why most people can't get the most healthful farmed foods (using true organic farming as that gold standard) is that it is not within the means of most people to pay such high organic food prices and that there are too many people in this world in numbers to begin with. I had of vision of producing animal-cruelty-free organic foods for the masses, but I don't know if that is even possible. Having a farm with cows hock deep in manure is not what I fancy. We lived healthier lifestyles when there were fewer people in the world and a greater percentage of people in ag. To answer your question, a commercial dairy is what I had in mind if that's how you define it. Who can afford to pay $11/gallon for "certified organic" milk at the supermarket? A bank executive? It sounds like the organic operations already in existence now cater only to the rich and can only do that to stay in business.

Organic prices are not a function of production. I know an organic farmer who had to sell his milk at conventional prices for a year because Organic Valley wouldn't take his milk. They don't want to increase their output and lower prices.

If you want to produce organic milk for the masses, you'll need your own bottling plant.

 

[gusea305]

.

 

[burroughs85]

Looking at this video I don't see a mud bath or manure heap anywhere around the barn area:



I like how the cow teats are cleaned and sanitized and how the udder is primed (like a pump) before the suction cups are placed on to ensure only clean fresh milk is dropped. Nobody wants cowchit or soil in their milk.

Besides pasteurization, don't some dairies even HOMOGENIZE their milk on site?

 

[littletom]

What chemicals do you think you are ingesting with food not labeled "organic"?

What chemicals do you think your ingesting with food labeled organic. No some people growing its not as cut and dryed as public thinks. Somewhat comical honestly. If you want real organic you better grow yourself.

 

[burroughs85]

I found this interesting video:



All the cows in the pasture look clean, healthy and happy except for the one cow with a face covered in flies.

 

[Buck Randall]

Looking at this video I don't see a mud bath or manure heap anywhere around the barn area:



I like how the cow teats are cleaned and sanitized and how the udder is primed (like a pump) before the suction cups are placed on to ensure only clean fresh milk is dropped. Nobody wants cowchit or soil in their milk.

Besides pasteurization, don't some dairies even HOMOGENIZE their milk on site?

 

[uplandnut]

Before you decide you can do an organic dairy make sure the dairies are going to accept your milk. The one local organic dairy has started to turn away farms because they have an abundance of supply already. Even the idea of milking goats is not what it was. The dairy that is using goat milk is turning dairies away as well, with the rumor of a large scale goat dairy on the coming on line this season.

With all the overhead in dairy I don't think that a "new" to the industry farm could get started. The land cost alone would impede a new farm in my area. There are a couple very large farms in the area that are paying over $200 an acre for crop rent. My neighbors who have farmed all there lives have had there farm paid for for the last 20 years. He told me last summer that he had never had such a hand to mouth year as last year was. The cost to buy everything has gone up, as has been brought up about fertilizer here, and he still makes the same per hundred weight that he did when he started. Last year was the lowest price per hundred he has gotten in 36 years of farming.

The video you posted of the people doing the calf sharing is crazy. To let a calf take roughly 75% (by there estimation) of there product is nuts. They would be better off just having one nurse cow. The only reason anyone raises there own replacements anymore is because they don't want to buy from a sale barn and take the chance on disease.

 

[Shoestring]

Better read the complete definition of Organic. The writer's of what Organic 'rules' left enough wiggle room in that you could interpret it anyway you want.

 

[burroughs85]

Doesn't the USDA and/or FDA define Organic?

 

[Dave]

Doesn't the USDA and/or FDA define Organic?

The USDA does. But the states are the one administrating it and their rules can vary some.

 

[burroughs85]

The USDA does. But the states are the one administrating it and their rules can vary some.

The states can add to federal rules but not take away from them. As an ethical organic farmer, I would adhere to the most stringent rules as a matter of good conscience. Certainly, the farmer can add tougher standards to govt. rules too but never take from them. Remember Hebrew National kosher franks commercials on TV from the 1970's? Uncle Sam OK'ed adding fillers but not the Jewish rabbi.
One of my standards would be that not a single molecule of cowchit would ever come in contact with milk destined for human consumption.

 

[KAstocker]

@burroughs85 what is your experience with raising livestock?