Where was BUSH??

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

The Bush gang pretty much makes a living off of ripping war vets..first McCain, now Kerry. I told you guys long ago that Bush was gonna regret opening up this Vietnam war service can of worms.....bet he wants a do over now!

Kerry is the one that opened that can, and it has blown up in his face! All Mccain did was say that if he (kerry) is going to make it an issue,then it is fair game.

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

Well, well, well.......seems the truth is finally coming out about W's National Guard duty. Seems he was to busy partying to go take a physical. Wonder what would happen to one of our kids if they did that?


But of course, he wants you to keep having your sons enlist, we need them to fight this war. Bush just didnt have the time in between the keggers and the social life. Funny how certain files got left out of the stack when all the files were made public!!

Let me see,....decorated serviceman who did 2 tours as requested...and then came back and stood up for something he felt was wrong,

or rich boy who refused to even take a physical and ran away as fast as he could to his daddies arms? It's your choice, but don't complain when you get 4 more yrs of the same mess we've had!

Again, it's the guys who have never even seen a war zone, much less fought in one, who are so gungho on keeping our young men and women in this war.

You obviously don't have any first hand knowledge of the guard/reserve,especially during that period of time. I was in a medical unit in the late 70's(Army) (active duty Navy during the Nam) the doctors did the same thing all of the time,it was their critical skills that made the military put up with them (just like a lot of pilots, especially fighter jocks).

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

I was wondering the same thing. All my friends who were sent over there spent 12 to 14 months per tour. I have read where Kerry spent 4 months in country. I have never seen anything about two tours.
If serving in 'Nam is a requirement for being President why was Clinton in office for 8 years? He wasn't even in the National Guard.
Kerry is the one who brought it up that his service qualifies him as a leader. There were thousands of Lieutenants who served in 'Nam. Does that make them qualified to lead the country? How about 19 years in the Senate and only pass two bill where he was the prime sponsor? Does this qualify him to lead? I am not Bush's greatest fan but I don't see where Kerry is in the slightest way qualified. If the people in Mass. were paying attention to him and his record they would have elected someone else to the Senate years ago.
Dave

The difference is Bill Clinton didn't lie about where he was during Viet Nam, he said he was in Canada eating BSE ridden beef. And during the elections he sure as the hell never ripped Bob Dole on his service record.

He(clinton) also spent time in the kremlin with his KGB buddies,and led antiwar protests on foreign soil! You can't tell people from Arkansas anything about that traitorous slimeball! He knew better than to lie about Bob Dole, but it did not keep him from lying about everything else!

 

[BLACKPOWER]

I was wondering the same thing. All my friends who were sent over there spent 12 to 14 months per tour. I have read where Kerry spent 4 months in country. I have never seen anything about two tours.
If serving in 'Nam is a requirement for being President why was Clinton in office for 8 years? He wasn't even in the National Guard.
Kerry is the one who brought it up that his service qualifies him as a leader. There were thousands of Lieutenants who served in 'Nam. Does that make them qualified to lead the country? How about 19 years in the Senate and only pass two bill where he was the prime sponsor? Does this qualify him to lead? I am not Bush's greatest fan but I don't see where Kerry is in the slightest way qualified. If the people in Mass. were paying attention to him and his record they would have elected someone else to the Senate years ago.
Dave

You guys are impossible. I vote independently, on the guys character, I have not endorsed one guy or the other, I do take offense to people making a mockery of Kerry's service record. For christ sake the man went into combat, shot people and what shot at. Whether or not the man a (D) or an (R) in front of his name is irrelevant. Why do you so vehemently insist on questioning and tearing down Kerry's war record? Could it be because your party is trying to draw attention away from Bush's record (or lack thereof)? I find it petty, shocking and sickening that a man who laid his life on the line for his country should have to defend his military record against a man who was AWOL for duty 8,000 miles away from the front lines.

 

[eric]

Amen brother...most of these guys are just hoping Bush gets reelected so they can get another $400 tax check. They are blinded to his inadequacies because he's a "good ol' boy" whom they believe will buy them a beer and help them out if needed. It ain't gonna happen folks.
We are on our own here. All Bush has done is spend money like crazy, get our kids sent home in body bags, and drag this war out so he can convince you to reelect him and let him finish the job. What do you see that will convince you that Bush can wrap up this war in 4 more yrs? Or even 40 yrs if he had them?

Lets bring some of them soldiers back home and let them protect our own borders for awhile! Is Kerry the answer? Who knows? Is Bush the answer? He has proven he isnt!

 

[greenpasture78]

oh Eric that is way too logical for the folks on this site. You need to speak "beer talk" language for these folks to understand ya. Plus, I think they are too scare of any kind of logics don'tcha think?

 

[txag]

You guys are impossible. I vote independently, on the guys character, I have not endorsed one guy or the other, I do take offense to people making a mockery of Kerry's service record. For christ sake the man went into combat, shot people and what shot at. Whether or not the man a (D) or an (R) in front of his name is irrelevant. Why do you so vehemently insist on questioning and tearing down Kerry's war record? Could it be because your party is trying to draw attention away from Bush's record (or lack thereof)? I find it petty, shocking and sickening that a man who laid his life on the line for his country should have to defend his military record against a man who was AWOL for duty 8,000 miles away from the front lines.

BP, Kerry used his war record as part of his platform & right or wrong that opens it up to criticism. there are sealed military records that Kerry refuses to make public that could clear up the whole issue. even you have to wonder how someone could serve 2 tours of duty and earn 3 purple hearts in just 4 months. that sounds like something even McGyver, Rambo, & Forest Gump all rolled into one would have a hard time accomplishing.

i'm not saying he didn't earn them & i respect him for the 4 months of service he did serve for this country. what i'm not sure about is why 4 months of service & 3 purple hearts qualifies him for presidency. that says nothing about his leadership. (don't bring Bush's service record into this because he's never boasted & run on his war record but instead chooses to run on his leadership abilities and the issues.) what has Kerry done since then? what kind of leadership has he shown? can you name me some bills he's sponsored in the years he's been in Congress? seems to me from his voting record, he not only hasn't led much, but he hasn't even voted on much. the few times he has, it's been anti-gun, higher taxes, more gov't, less military (i.e. less defense). as for the issues, sure Kerry says what he thinks everyone wants to hear, but he has yet to say how he will accomplish those goals.

i'm a registered Republican but never have i voted a straight ticket. basically, to me, being registered Republican means that i can vote in the primaries and that when i sit down to vote, if there's two people running against each other that i've never heard of, i'll choose the Republican over the Democrat. i just feel that in the grand scheme of things, i have more in common with the Republican party as far as views, morals, and ideals.

 

[dun]

You guys are impossible. I vote independently, on the guys character, I have not endorsed one guy or the other, I do take offense to people making a mockery of Kerry's service record. For christ sake the man went into combat, shot people and what shot at. Whether or not the man a (D) or an (R) in front of his name is irrelevant. Why do you so vehemently insist on questioning and tearing down Kerry's war record? Could it be because your party is trying to draw attention away from Bush's record (or lack thereof)? I find it petty, shocking and sickening that a man who laid his life on the line for his country should have to defend his military record against a man who was AWOL for duty 8,000 miles away from the front lines.

There are two reasons why I could never support kerry. One is his anti-gun voting record and agenda. The primary one is his traitorous behaviour when he returned from his 4 months in Nam.
If I could get one I'ld have the bumper sticker that says
"I',m not FONDA kerry"

dun

 

[Craig-TX]

You guys are impossible. I vote independently, on the guys character, I have not endorsed one guy or the other, I do take offense to people making a mockery of Kerry's service record. For christ sake the man went into combat, shot people and what shot at. Whether or not the man a (D) or an (R) in front of his name is irrelevant. Why do you so vehemently insist on questioning and tearing down Kerry's war record? Could it be because your party is trying to draw attention away from Bush's record (or lack thereof)? I find it petty, shocking and sickening that a man who laid his life on the line for his country should have to defend his military record against a man who was AWOL for duty 8,000 miles away from the front lines.

There are two reasons why I could never support kerry. One is his anti-gun voting record and agenda. The primary one is his traitorous behaviour when he returned from his 4 months in Nam.
If I could get one I'ld have the bumper sticker that says
"I',m not FONDA kerry"

dun

Well put. There are many reasons for me, but these are two of the biggest.

Craig-TX

 

[Campground Cattle]

Why are y'all getting caught up in thirty year old record. Both of these men served I will not smear either for that. The President before was a draft dodger served two terms. If you didn't live the sixties and seventies you have no idea what the Vietnam issues were. How many of you lost high school buddies, how many funerals did you attend of brave young men that went to serve. This was while we were shooting students on our college campuses. Our returning veterans were spat on.
This country was fighting two wars the one overseas and a civil war at home

Todays issue is who is best to lead our country in the Holy War we are in.

I have made my mind up I have to vote for the man that protects my family and christian values.

 

[dun]

Why are y'all getting caught up in thirty year old record. Both of these men served I will not smear either for that. The President before was a draft dodger served two terms. If you didn't live the sixties and seventies you have no idea what the Vietnam issues were. How many of you lost high school buddies, how many funerals did you attend of brave young men that went to serve. This was while we were shooting students on our college campuses. Our returning veterans were spat on.
This country was fighting two wars the one overseas and a civil war at home

Todays issue is who is best to lead our country in the Holy War we are in.

I have made my mind up I have to vote for the man that protects my family and christian values.

Being a trator is like being a queer. If you are you are. Time won't change that. But I would prefer a queer for elected office over a traitor. Like wife beaters, drug dealers and child abusers, they should be taken out and shot.

dun

 

[eric]

Dun, please bear with me and understand that I was about 3-4 yrs old during most of the Vietnam era.....but what makes Kerry a traitor? As I understand it, he served his time, didnt like the situation that was going on with the war, and then came home and, I assume peacefully, or at least legally, protested against those whom he felt were responsible for those wrongdoings. Does standing up for what you believe in make you a traitor? If they suddenly outlawed guns, and you protested that, would you then be a traitor?

I agree that wife beaters, drug dealers and child abusers should be taken out and shot, but those are people who have broken laws. What laws are broken from legally protesting against something you feel is wrong? Maybe he was just passionate about something he believed in and felt that was the best way to get his message out there.

I am sure you remember much more about this than I ever will, having actually lived through it and all, but I just cant understand why Kerry's getting ripped for standing up and speaking out against what was undoubtably the most unpopular war of our time.

 

[Texan]

i just feel that in the grand scheme of things, i have more in common with the Republican party as far as views, morals, and ideals.

Way to go, txag! Stated the feelings of a lot of us! And stated them perfectly! Thanks a lot!

 

[dun]

Dun, please bear with me and understand that I was about 3-4 yrs old during most of the Vietnam era.....but what makes Kerry a traitor? As I understand it, he served his time, didnt like the situation that was going on with the war, and then came home and, I assume peacefully, or at least legally, protested against those whom he felt were responsible for those wrongdoings. Does standing up for what you believe in make you a traitor? If they suddenly outlawed guns, and you protested that, would you then be a traitor?

I agree that wife beaters, drug dealers and child abusers should be taken out and shot, but those are people who have broken laws. What laws are broken from legally protesting against something you feel is wrong? Maybe he was just passionate about something he believed in and felt that was the best way to get his message out there.

I am sure you remember much more about this than I ever will, having actually lived through it and all, but I just cant understand why Kerry's getting ripped for standing up and speaking out against what was undoubtably the most unpopular war of our time.

Providing add and comfort to the enemy makes one a traitor. Protesting is one thing, but claiming that the military over there are war criminals, siding with j fonda (lower case only because I can't make them even smaller) who traveled to N Vietnam and spent time in hanoi, etc. claiming that the US military were war criminals, that's what makes a traitor. I have too many of my friends that have been treated as criminals for doing their duty, and way too many with their names on the wall. Just as I will never forgive the cowards that ran to Canada that carter forgave, I'll never forgive those that added the enemy. I'm not talking about the justification of being there, but it was that type of behaviour that made the Nam vets looked on as a lower form of life. Granted, there was some dispicable behavious and incidents, I don't condone them, but in most cases I can understand them. We expect our police to be somehow super human when they have to take abuse/insults, etc.. We expect the same thing from a bunch of mostly young kids that are exposed to things from the other side that no one should ever have to see.
No forgivness for treason.

dun

 

[eric]

Understood. Just thought that traitor was a strong word and there must be more to it than just the protesting that made you feel that way. Thanks for clearing that up, as stated, I was young and never really learned as much about Nam as I should of.

 

[dun]

Understood. Just thought that traitor was a strong word and there must be more to it than just the protesting that made you feel that way. Thanks for clearing that up, as stated, I was young and never really learned as much about Nam as I should of.

Nothing wrong with being young. Being unwilling to learn about the history of things is what's wrong.
Many if not most of the people my age and significantly younger for that matter, that had to deal with the kerry garbage feel the same as I do. And they're a lot more articulate then I at expressing themselves. These are my personal feelings, and I speak only for myself.

It may be that we tend to associate primarily with people that have like opinions, but in my circle of acquaintences , kerry is thought of the same way. I'm even considered a moderate by some of them.

dun

 

[txshowmom]

Providing add and comfort to the enemy makes one a traitor. Protesting is one thing, but claiming that the military over there are war criminals, siding with j fonda (lower case only because I can't make them even smaller) who traveled to N Vietnam and spent time in hanoi, etc. claiming that the US military were war criminals, that's what makes a traitor. I have too many of my friends that have been treated as criminals for doing their duty, and way too many with their names on the wall. Just as I will never forgive the cowards that ran to Canada that carter forgave, I'll never forgive those that added the enemy. I'm not talking about the justification of being there, but it was that type of behaviour that made the Nam vets looked on as a lower form of life. Granted, there was some dispicable behavious and incidents, I don't condone them, but in most cases I can understand them. We expect our police to be somehow super human when they have to take abuse/insults, etc.. We expect the same thing from a bunch of mostly young kids that are exposed to things from the other side that no one should ever have to see.
No forgivness for treason.

Way to go Dun!

 

[txag]

Understood. Just thought that traitor was a strong word and there must be more to it than just the protesting that made you feel that way. Thanks for clearing that up, as stated, I was young and never really learned as much about Nam as I should of.

Nothing wrong with being young. Being unwilling to learn about the history of things is what's wrong.
Many if not most of the people my age and significantly younger for that matter, that had to deal with the kerry garbage feel the same as I do. And they're a lot more articulate then I at expressing themselves. These are my personal feelings, and I speak only for myself.

It may be that we tend to associate primarily with people that have like opinions, but in my circle of acquaintences , kerry is thought of the same way. I'm even considered a moderate by some of them.

dun

what's interesting is what other things about Kerry might not be known or are overlooked because someone didn't research the issues enough & only listens to certain slanted news programs (yahoo, stern's website, etc.).

 

[Campground Cattle]

Understood. Just thought that traitor was a strong word and there must be more to it than just the protesting that made you feel that way. Thanks for clearing that up, as stated, I was young and never really learned as much about Nam as I should of.

I agree with Dun after Kerry came home his actions branded him a traitor to me also. The only reason I didn't go was my draft number wasn't pulled in the lottery. Remember watching the TV to see if my number was pulled. I got to go to several funerals in high school that coffins had American flags covering them. One was my best friends older brother we grew up playing football. It just irk's me to here the Green Manure's of the world spouting off about things that happen before they were born.

 

[BLACKPOWER]

Why are y'all getting caught up in thirty year old record. Both of these men served I will not smear either for that. The President before was a draft dodger served two terms. If you didn't live the sixties and seventies you have no idea what the Vietnam issues were. How many of you lost high school buddies, how many funerals did you attend of brave young men that went to serve. This was while we were shooting students on our college campuses. Our returning veterans were spat on.
This country was fighting two wars the one overseas and a civil war at home

Todays issue is who is best to lead our country in the Holy War we are in.

I have made my mind up I have to vote for the man that protects my family and christian values.

Being a trator is like being a queer. If you are you are. Time won't change that. But I would prefer a queer for elected office over a traitor. Like wife beaters, drug dealers and child abusers, they should be taken out and shot.

dun

So every Vietnam vet that questions why we were ever there is a traitor? You are an idiot.