Where do you find it?

Help Support CattleToday:

J+ Cattle

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
463
Reaction score
553
Location
North Texas
Where do you find the information that the semen companies don't put in their brochures?

They give you EPDs and a flowery narrative about all of the wonderful qualities of a potential sire but don't give you basic information such as; frame score, actual BW, WW or MW that could influence your decision.

Here is an example:

1637513802399.png

I also don't like it when they have pictures that are air brushed or knee deep in straw like this picture, it makes me wonder if there is something they don't want me to see. I know they're promoting sales and want everything to look perfect but can't we have a "commercial cattlemans semen company" that gives you all of the information and real-world pictures? I would even like to see a reviews section for each bull where producers can post their likes and dislikes on each bull, just like you review your purchases on Amazon. Okay I'm finished with my rant now.

Where do you find the information that the semen companies don't put in their brochures?
 

wbvs58

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
6,190
Reaction score
1,514
Location
S.E. Queensland, Australia
Facebook has a couple of groups that you can ask questions on, you do get a lot of prejudices that you need to sort out through though.
AI sires discussion good/bad.
Angus breeders message board.
are a couple that I will browse. You get to learn who the anti GAR are and then the anti SAV and then the anti everything people are. Tonya Dodds posts on it regularly and I find she gives a pretty honest assessment of bulls they have used in a civilised manner.

Ken
 
OP
J+ Cattle

J+ Cattle

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
463
Reaction score
553
Location
North Texas
The Angus association website will show me the EPDs but that’s all it shows. If there’s a way to see more I don’t know how to find it.
 

faster horses

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Messages
342
Reaction score
461
Location
NE WY
Where do you find the information that the semen companies don't put in their brochures?

They give you EPDs and a flowery narrative about all of the wonderful qualities of a potential sire but don't give you basic information such as; frame score, actual BW, WW or MW that could influence your decision.

Here is an example:

View attachment 10463

I also don't like it when they have pictures that are air brushed or knee deep in straw like this picture, it makes me wonder if there is something they don't want me to see. I know they're promoting sales and want everything to look perfect but can't we have a "commercial cattlemans semen company" that gives you all of the information and real-world pictures? I would even like to see a reviews section for each bull where producers can post their likes and dislikes on each bull, just like you review your purchases on Amazon. Okay I'm finished with my rant now.

Where do you find the information that the semen companies don't put in their brochures?
I asked an Angus breeder I respect about this exact bull. He replied, "bad feet."
 

BC

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
2,612
Reaction score
173
Location
Van Zandt County, TX
The Angus association website will show me the EPDs but that’s all it shows. If there’s a way to see more I don’t know how to find it.
J+ is right. Actual performance records are not listed on the Angus website. I didn't check all breed sites but did look at Santa Gertrudis (because I raise them) and Beefmaster (because I have a friend that I am helping to understand epd's). They both list actual performance information if it is turned in to association.
 

bigbluegrass

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
439
Reaction score
156
Location
Northern KY
Where do you find the information that the semen companies don't put in their brochures?
Toward the back of the semen company "sire directory" or catalog will have some of the information. Looking at the ABS catalog, it has birth date, birth weight and ratio, 205 weight and ratio, 365 weight and ratio, Yearling frame score, Mature frame score, Scrotal circumference, weight (mature) and height (mature). Some of the spots have N/A. I don't know if that is true for every semen company catalog, but generally it is in the bigger ABS catalogs.
 

Stickney94

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
320
Reaction score
91
Location
SW MN
I know ABS has a bull search app that has at least the capacity to show these items -- not sure if this link will go there for Mead Magnitude (that sire just was at the top of the list):


I've been using that cross reference frequently. And as Ken says the FB boards are useful if you sift through the vocal ends of the spectrum opinions.
 

Dsth

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
645
Reaction score
497
Location
eastern Iowa
I will often times find a bull's video posted on line when they are sold on breeders auction. I would also like some feedback on AI bulls. I thought the AI studs screened bulls for undesirable traits like bad feet, but I have found out that they do not. I am not on FB so will be interested also to see what others post.
 
OP
J+ Cattle

J+ Cattle

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
463
Reaction score
553
Location
North Texas
I thought the AI studs screened bulls for undesirable traits like bad feet, but I have found out that they do not.
Unfortunately, the profit motivation overtakes their misgivings about the undesirable traits, and they promote the bull for the almighty dollar. That's why I would like to see a review by the users. This thread has already revealed some lessons breeders have learned the hard way.
 

SPH

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
648
Reaction score
31
Location
Iowa
When you look up a pedigree on the Hereford website there is also a link under that animal for performance pedigree. If the breeder submits data to the association you will find everything from weight ratios, frame score, scrotal circumference, and carcass scan data both as an individual but also calves he's sired along with his sire and dam's reported data. Here's just and example of a bull we once used AI that has a lot of that data on his performance pedigree on many levels: http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-b...2=3534&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5B5A22222F262F

Unfortunately not all AI sires have the extent of data available like this one does. When we sell yearling bulls we are as transparent as we can be as we get weights and measurements at yearling and weaning along with an ultrasound for carcass data that we also submit to AHA along with DNA to test for genetic defects. We also report all birth, weaning, and yearling weights and yearling frame scores of everything we raise. We're just a small herd so it isn't too time consuming for us to do but wish we would have more purebred breeders that would put in the effort it takes to record and submit data to breed associations. EPDs would be much more reliable and accurate if everyone did their part with that. Then you also have to wonder just how much some of the weights are manipulated with creep feed and such and then you have the show cattle side of things too that some of these bulls are marketed from their success in the show ring and not necessarily because of their true genetic potential. And not everyone does their part to cull out problems like bad feet, udders, etc too unfortunately.

Best thing you can do is decide what is important to you and do your research through every means you have available to you. Some of these internet boards and sites have been great to get some real life feedback and not just some AI stud sales rep telling you how great their bull lineups are.
 
OP
J+ Cattle

J+ Cattle

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
463
Reaction score
553
Location
North Texas
Then you also have to wonder just how much some of the weights are manipulated with creep feed and such
When I see those claiming a 205 day weaning weight of around 1000 lbs. (I immediately think of SAV) and I know it's not momma's milk and grass that put that kind of weight on.
 

Latest posts

Top