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KANSAS

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I love seeing the old pictures of cattle when they were as round as a barrel and not much taller than waist high. I usually see them as angus or hereford. Could someone out there go through the body transitions within any one breed (hereford or angus) over lets say the past hundred years. And what created the demand for such change.

Looking at the old body type vs the new it is hard to imagine that they are even the same breed of animal.

Also, what would it take to get back to this same body type? If it is even possible at this time.

Thanks in Advance
 

ALACOWMAN

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KANSAS":447m2fnd said:
I love seeing the old pictures of cattle when they were as round as a barrel and not much taller than waist high. I usually see them as angus or hereford. Could someone out there go through the body transitions within any one breed (hereford or angus) over lets say the past hundred years. And what created the demand for such change.

Looking at the old body type vs the new it is hard to imagine that they are even the same breed of animal.

  • Also, what would it take to get back to this same body type? If it is even possible at this time
.

Thanks in Advance
you kiddin aint'che wherethe punch line?
 

MikeC

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Yea. I'd like to go back to the days when it took 2-3 years to fatten a steer when it took 14-15 lbs of feed to put a pound of gain on them. :lol:
 
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KANSAS

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What the he** is the matter with you folks? I never said I wanted to go back to these days... Read the questions. Some of you have either been burnt way too many times in your lives or simply lead a bitter one.

I just think those old cattle photos are neat to look at and think it is amazing how much change has taken place in any particular breed over such a short period of time.

Just like an old historic home is neat, or an antique car. Are they functional? Absolutely not..
 

ALACOWMAN

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i guess when someone asks what would it take to go backward in time, i figure he's got the itch to actually try it. as for as me being bitter. cant speak for the rest but yes. yes i am bitter i just had 3 charolais calves born this morning and i dont even own a char bull :p
 

C HOLLAND

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ALACOWMAN":12l53n2c said:
i guess when someone asks what would it take to go backward in time, i figure he's got the itch to actually try it. as for as me being bitter. cant speak for the rest but yes. yes i am bitter i just had 3 charolais calves born this morning and i dont even own a char bull :p

Mikey DID IT :lol: :lol: and I took it that he wanted to know how to go back also.
 

MikeC

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Also, what would it take to get back to this same body type? If it is even possible at this time.

By the above statement you sure had me believing you wanted to go back. Glad to see you are just reminiscing. :lol:

I am bitter too. My wife just said she wasn't gonna cook dinner tonight.
 
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KANSAS

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Ala... now that is going backwards....

No.. I dont want to go back to those days... But I see the old pics at the local sale barn and everynow and again see the short fat and round herefords in old movies. Hard to believe it is the same animal. Those old herefords in the movies couldnt even breed a hereford today. And I can guarantee you noone ever had a problem with cattle jumping the fence back then. I doubt they could get off the ground.

So back to the original question. How did that animal get turned into the animal we see today? What caused it? And how hard would it be to take todays animals and turn them back into that? Makes me wonder sometimes if we can change the structure of animal that much in say 70 years, what the hell will the cattle look like 70 years from today...
 
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KANSAS

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Holland I see you and Mikey are from the same state. May have something to do with your schooling. Thats not what the question said. P.S. say hello to your wife, I mean sister, I mean cousin for me would ya....
 

ALACOWMAN

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C HOLLAND":3bhvh65v said:
ALACOWMAN":3bhvh65v said:
i guess when someone asks what would it take to go backward in time, i figure he's got the itch to actually try it. as for as me being bitter. cant speak for the rest but yes. yes i am bitter i just had 3 charolais calves born this morning and i dont even own a char bull :p

Mikey DID IT :lol: :lol: and I took it that he wanted to know how to go back also.
nope. but i bet mike will say ill be thanking my neighbor in a few months for em. hate to say it but they a some good looking little boogers. one was even out of a heifer. so what do you think mike did he put money in my pocket ;-)
 

C HOLLAND

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KANSAS":2sxq1gjp said:
Holland I see you and Mikey are from the same state. May have something to do with your schooling. Thats not what the question said. P.S. say hello to your wife, I mean sister, I mean cousin for me would ya....

Sir,, I have a BSEE degree and my wife and I both were born in Florida if it's any of your concern.

I think the point has been made, you asked what it would take to go back to those type of cattle.

Here is what you asked,,,,,QUOTE Also, what would it take to get back to this same body type? If it is even possible at this time. QUOTE

so Pizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz off little BOY
 

C HOLLAND

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ALACOWMAN":2bngskmo said:
C HOLLAND":2bngskmo said:
ALACOWMAN":2bngskmo said:
i guess when someone asks what would it take to go backward in time, i figure he's got the itch to actually try it. as for as me being bitter. cant speak for the rest but yes. yes i am bitter i just had 3 charolais calves born this morning and i dont even own a char bull :p

Mikey DID IT :lol: :lol: and I took it that he wanted to know how to go back also.
nope. but i bet mike will say ill be thanking my neighbor in a few months for em. hate to say it but they a some good looking little boogers. one was even out of a heifer. so what do you think mike did he put money in my pocket ;-)

Alabama,,,I used my Angus bull on my char heifers and I really like the results too.
 

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C HOLLAND":ms6u5lpc said:
KANSAS":ms6u5lpc said:
Holland I see you and Mikey are from the same state. May have something to do with your schooling. Thats not what the question said. P.S. say hello to your wife, I mean sister, I mean cousin for me would ya....

Sir,, I have a BSEE degree and my wife and I both were born in Florida if it's any of your concern.

I think the point has been made, you asked what it would take to go back to those type of cattle.

Here is what you asked,,,,,QUOTE Also, what would it take to get back to this same body type? If it is even possible at this time. QUOTE

so Pizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz off little BOY
dang you high stepper you. do you still have your tooth? i mean teeth ;-)
 

C HOLLAND

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ALACOWMAN":tm0gdc8l said:
C HOLLAND":tm0gdc8l said:
KANSAS":tm0gdc8l said:
Holland I see you and Mikey are from the same state. May have something to do with your schooling. Thats not what the question said. P.S. say hello to your wife, I mean sister, I mean cousin for me would ya....

Sir,, I have a BSEE degree and my wife and I both were born in Florida if it's any of your concern.

I think the point has been made, you asked what it would take to go back to those type of cattle.

Here is what you asked,,,,,QUOTE Also, what would it take to get back to this same body type? If it is even possible at this time. QUOTE

so Pizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz off little BOY
dang you high stepper you. do you still have your tooth? i mean teeth ;-)

I have them all,,,and they don't get put in a jar every night.
 

MikeC

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So back to the original question. How did that animal get turned into the animal we see today? What caused it?

By golly you are serious???????? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Couldn't it have been the breeding?????? NAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Must have been UfO's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And YOU'RE talking about anothers' schooling?? Too funny!
 

alftn

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Hey Kansas.. Had a book given to me a couple of christmas ago, (A cows life) by M. R. Montgomery..It has a lot of history about cattle and how they evolved...Worth reading some of it twice...
 

DOC HARRIS

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KANSAS-To answer your question regarding ". . what would it take to get back to this same body type? If it is even possible at this time."

To help put a cork in the harangue that seems - once again - to be sneaking it's way into these posts, which, according to what I thought they were for, was to have a reasonable and sensible dialogue about Beef Cattle Production and Management! Maybe I am wrong - it has happened before!

Anyway, back to the question du jour! To placate the obvious misunderstanding that some of the members experienced from reading your question, I think that your meaning could probably have been more easily understood by your saying something like "What would it take to prevent this same body type from almost destroying the breed - AGAIN!" - or - try this - -"? What kind of insufferable TORTURE can be inflicted on stupid, uninformed and wealthy Tax Dodgers who haven't got a clue or the integrity on how to sustain and improve a valuable commodity such as a Beef Cattle Breed?"

And, YES, Virginia - -it certainly IS possible - at THIS TIME - to be so ignorant, irresponsible, hubristic, selfish, and self-centered that with a lack of concern and determination to educate one's self in the necessities and mandates of Beef Production and Management, an entire BREED can be so violated, corrupted and damaged Phenotypically and Genotypically that it would take ANOTHER 30 - 40 years to correct the mistakes made by just a few careless and senseless people! :mad: :help: If we try TOO hard to play GOD, we are asking for trouble!

You touched a raw nerve with your question - because I have lived through just such a disasterous period of time from the 40's through the mid 60's with the Angus Breed - and I see the same type of ugly signs rearing their selfish heads - AGAIN, WITH THE SAME BREED! The situation incensed me at the time, and it is getting to be de'ja' vu ALL over AGAIN - except THIS time it is a tug-of-war between TWO factions - those who are trying to make the breed as BIG (notice I did NOT say 'as profitable') as possible, and those who are attempting to make the breed "Easy Calving High Milkers"'! They are BOTH wrong- In My Opinion! The term "Moderation" is in neither of their vocabularies! But - we are a Vain and Stiff-necked people, and we work HARD to REFUSE to learn by our previous mistakes AND the mistakes of others! Therefore, I feel that we are beginning to travel down the same road as we did 50 some years, ago - with this exception: there are many bright and intelligent breeders who can see through the mercenary ploys of SOME breeder's, and will repudiate the siren's call, and have responsibility and determination and cajones enough to see the handwriting-on-the-wall in time to avoid a disatrous train wreck, necessitating a complete "Phoenix' recurrance to get the Angus Breed BACK to what made it the most versatile and utilitarian Beef Breed in history! It is still that Anchor of the Beef Business, but there are other breed's that are becoming very valuable as well!

KANSAS- I hope you can perceive the intensity I have for the need of EDUCATION AND LEARNING in regard to the future of a breeders' business and income, and the continuance of breeding EXCELLENT beef cattle.

It's What's For Dinner! And that is not just a catch phrase.

DON'T GET ME STARTED!

DOC HARRIS
 

dj

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Kansas I've heard you can undo in 2 generations what took 10 to achieve. And by crossing with the "mini's" I guess you could take a group back in 1.
As to why we have the larger animals.
Consumer demand for "sized" portions. I get more satisfaction eating 1 large steak as opposed to 2 small ones. And who wants to dish out itty bitty steaks at a barbque?
Packers want the size that is most profitable to cut and box.
Producers want a healthy calf that grows fast to a size that satisfies the the above two. Neither the rolly pollys nor the mastadons do that.
 

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