When would you let her ride?

[CUZ]

Here's the story: This happened about two weeks ago. Good looking first time Heifer (had hoped she'd make a Real good cow) has a really nice bull calf. Heifer is red, Bull is black and the calf is black. Found them about 2 or 3 hours (best guess) after the calf hit the ground. Calf was cleaned up and alert and laying in some cover. We decided to get the calf up and be sure she nursed since the heifer had certainly not been nursed out.

Well the heifer had decided she preferred a two month old red hided calf since she was hanging close with it and licking around on it. Got them both up and got them connected. As soon as we released the heifer she made it clear she did not want THAT calf hanging around with her, butting it, knocking it down and stomping around it. (Calf wound up with a bloody nose.) After several hours of trying we decided she HATED her calf. We put them out in a small pasture and after knocking the calf down again she went to the far end of the pasture. So we're bottle feeding the calf (under the theory a live calf is worth more than a dead one) and it's doing fine.

Anyway it seems to me the heifer needs to take a ride to the salebarn. We are currently feeding her with the weaners in the hopes she can put on some weight.

So here are what I think are options; (pasture is not a problem)
1. Put her out on pasture until she leaves in
- June
- July
- August
2. Breed her back and sell her as a Bred 2nd timer in the fall
3. Give her another chance

I don't like Option #3, but then again I've never seen one HATE their own calf like she seemed to. Maybe the 2nd time is the charm.

Okay, I look forward to your input.
Thanks
Cuz

 

[Sir Loin]

Salebarn, and not in June - July – August, now.

 

[dun]

We had a second calver that pulled the trying to kill her calf trick. Raised the first one great, darn near killed the second. She brought $53 cwt the first sale day after she calved.
Now, tomorrow would be a good day for it, it's too late today.

dun

 

[backhoeboogie]

Sale barn time. Life is to short to deal with problem cattle. She'll make good hamburger.

 

[CUZ]

Thanks folks. She'll be leaving with the next load.

I knew she needed to go since she was not performing her function, but she just had so much potential I thought I'd run it by ya'll and see if there was something I wasn't thinking of.

Thanks again.
Cuz

 

[stocky]

Cuz, it all depends on how much trouble she is to you if you keep her. Right now, she will only bring market price to go to the feedlot and that isnt very much. In July, she will bring 700-800 as a 1st period cow, in October she will bring 900-1100 as a 2nd period cow and in Jan. she will bring 1000-1200 as a green tag cow. All of this is if she is as good as you said she is. So, figuring she will bring 60-70 cents now, is she going to cause too much trouble to you for you to keep her until January or can you make that much money on something else in that period of time?

 

[msscamp]

Stocky, what is a 'green tag cow'?

 

[stocky]

Green tag refers to the stage of pregnancy. A green tag means she is 7-9 months bred at the sales barns. Or another way to think of it is she is a 3rd period bred cow. I guess I threw in a local way of saying things by using green tag cow and wasnt thinking that it is probably only a local way of saying it.

 

[msscamp]

No problem, thanks!

 

[rocking_S_Ranch]

Hang on a sec! She's a FIRST calf heifer! I've had them do this the first time and they're fine with future calves. The best thing to do would have been to lock her in a 12x12 pen with the calf close by. Every time she butts at it, educate her. She'll come to respect you enough to love her calf.
If she was a marginal heifer, I'd say let her go to town. If she's as good as you say she is, give her next year to prove herself.

 

[randiliana]

Hang on a sec! She's a FIRST calf heifer! I've had them do this the first time and they're fine with future calves. The best thing to do would have been to lock her in a 12x12 pen with the calf close by. Every time she butts at it, educate her. She'll come to respect you enough to love her calf.
If she was a marginal heifer, I'd say let her go to town. If she's as good as you say she is, give her next year to prove herself.

I kinda agree here. From what I read, she mothered up to another calf BEFORE she calved. Now, in a perfect world, she would have headed over the hill, and never connected with this other calf. Basically, what happened is the hormones got going, she mothered another calf, decided it must be hers, and when she actually calved decided that that calf didn't smell like "hers". So to me this says she has good mothering instincts. Unfortunately she misdirected them. Heck, we have COWS that do this every year(not the same cow). The hormones at calving are telling them that they have one out there. They will pick up any calf, usually a newborn (usually doesn't happen with older calves) and then you may have problems with them when they drop their own calf. This usually happens when they are crowded, but I have seen it happen out on the open range as well.

This heifer should have been separated from the wrong calf immediately (if you saw what was going on early enough) and put in a separate pen to calve. She would have then taken her calf. But she was allowed to mother the wrong calf for too long. And when she calved her "real" calf didn't smell right. I would have penned them up together, probably headgated the heifer and let the calf suck. Might have even hobbled her if I thought it was needed. She should have taken her real calf without too much trouble.

If she was actually trying to hurt/kill the calf instead of just knocking it away from her THEN for sure she should go down the road. If she was just knocking it away, because she didn't think it was her calf then it may have been worth working with her a bit more, and it may be worth giving her another chance. Your choice, but that is what I would have done.

 

[Aero]

i assume the calf wont be kept for breeding...?

 

[CUZ]

I appreciate everyone's input.

And while I think we could make a little more by selling her in October as a bred 2nd timer I just don't think I'd feel right passing her off on some unsuspecting person. I would probably never know if she pulled the same stunt for them but I know I would always feel about half guilty thinking I'd passed a problem off on somebody else. After all I find enough problems without other folks passing theirs on to me.

Aero - NO, the calf will not be kept for breeding.

Thanks
Cuz

 

[Bez>]

Hang on a sec! She's a FIRST calf heifer! I've had them do this the first time and they're fine with future calves. The best thing to do would have been to lock her in a 12x12 pen with the calf close by. Every time she butts at it, educate her. She'll come to respect you enough to love her calf.
If she was a marginal heifer, I'd say let her go to town. If she's as good as you say she is, give her next year to prove herself.

I am here to tell you that "education" works. Did this enough times to get good at it.

Bez>

 

[AngusLimoX]

In my situation I would go with Randilianna and Rockin S and send her to Bez's school. :lol:

I have the time to put in, I don't think what happened is a maternal fault, and good heifers are worth the extra effort.

Only one that can weigh those factors is Cuz.

 

[tryinhard]

I've seen this happen a couple of times, and heard of it a few times, The ones who kept them had no trouble on the next calf. I don't know why, My brother-n-law told me once that he had 2 different ones do this and he thought it was just too scary, and or painful for them, and the next time they did good. Your choice though, I'm sure it don't always happen that way. Good luck.




tryinhard

 

[randiliana]

Around here most heifers will get a second chance. I have a few standards that will result in a trip to the sale barn the first time around but most get 2 chances.

They are
- Must raise a calf that gains at least 1.8 lb/day.
- Must be reasonable to work with (attitude is everything)
- Try to "kill" it and you are gone
- Must rebreed

We have kept cows that aborted or lost a calf as heifers and they are still in the herd 8 years later.

 

[Northern Rancher]

It's amazing how many 'troubles' disappear if you let cows out to calve on pasture. Cows have been doing an admirable job of being cows for thousands of years it's just in the last 50 or so we decided to shut them up and make life difficult for them.