When will a bull start breeding?

[A-RRanch]

I know I ask alot of beginner type questions and I hope nobody is getting sick of me but heres one more. At what age will a bull start breeding? I have a very small herd (3-5) cows and cant really afford 3-4K for a bull right now but I could pick up a 6 mos old for 900 or even a yearling bull for 1500 but when would these bulls be ready to get it done? Thank you.

 

[3waycross]

I know I ask alot of beginner type questions and I hope nobody is getting sick of me but heres one more. At what age will a bull start breeding? I have a very small herd (3-5) cows and cant really afford 3-4K for a bull right now but I could pick up a 6 mos old for 900 or even a yearling bull for 1500 but when would these bulls be ready to get it done? Thank you.

14 to 16 months is usually a fairly safe bet. You would want to have a Breeding Soundness exam done on him before you turn him out at any age.

The thing you usually give up by developing your own is him being able to perform at a young age. Most bulls coming off test will pass their BSE at 12 months and be big enuf physically to breed but you will pay more than 1500 for that compared to one that is allowed to develope at a slower pace.

FWIW i have to wonder why you want to own a bull for a 5 cow herd. Why not have them AI'd or try to find some to let you run them with their herd for 60 days!

 

[A-RRanch]

I am exploring options. I am looking into AI and its slow getting info on cost etc. but Im still working on that.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Why not call the folks at Bovine Elite up at College Station. They can give all the information you need on AI.

 

[cmf1]

I have a small herd myself. The most I have had here is 20. Running 10 now with a lot of comfort margin and room for a cow or two more if I come across anything that I feel is exceptional for what I want. I thought about AI for three years before it made sense to me to do it. ( :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: )
If it cost you $150 per head (high for comparison) to AI 5 head that's $750.
That's 2 years of breeding in lieu of a $1500 bull.
Take out the cost of keeping a bull year round and you made money by going AI.
If you do some homework on the AI bulls you will use, it weighs pretty heavy in your favor that you will have better quality calves ($$) from AI bulls than that $1500 dollar bull.
3k-4k bull you extend the numbers out.And while you may or may not see marked improvement in quality you're still saving money on bull keeping costs.
I'm also hoping that AI can give me more of an edge at getting the most out of each individual cow's ability to produce by marrying them to traits that I think they need for what I want to see them produce on an individual basis.
It might sound like I think I stumbled on to a pot-o-gold but that's not what I'm saying. This is my first calf crop from AI and next year I may feel differently. But as of now it's hard to see the downside from my small herd point of view versus what I had been doing with live cover.

 

[Warrior2154]

What type of herd are you looking to build, purebred or commercial? I agree with the AI thing over buying a bull. There are a lot if good bulls at the different stud companies

 

[Warrior2154]

Also one thing if you AI is that you can use bulls who are very proven so you know what you will get.

 

[3waycross]

I have a small herd myself. The most I have had here is 20. Running 10 now with a lot of comfort margin and room for a cow or two more if I come across anything that I feel is exceptional for what I want. I thought about AI for three years before it made sense to me to do it. ( :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: )
If it cost you $150 per head (high for comparison) to AI 5 head that's $750.
That's 2 years of breeding in lieu of a $1500 bull.
Take out the cost of keeping a bull year round and you made money by going AI.
If you do some homework on the AI bulls you will use, it weighs pretty heavy in your favor that you will have better quality calves ($$) from AI bulls than that $1500 dollar bull.
3k-4k bull you extend the numbers out.And while you may or may not see marked improvement in quality you're still saving money on bull keeping costs.
I'm also hoping that AI can give me more of an edge at getting the most out of each individual cow's ability to produce by marrying them to traits that I think they need for what I want to see them produce on an individual basis.
It might sound like I think I stumbled on to a pot-o-gold but that's not what I'm saying. This is my first calf crop from AI and next year I may feel differently. But as of now it's hard to see the downside from my small herd point of view versus what I had been doing with live cover.

Based on what you posted this week for calves i wouldn't change a thing if i was you!!!

 

[ranchmom77]

Won't you still need a clean up bull if you AI?

 

[3waycross]

Won't you still need a clean up bull if you AI?

With that many cows give em two shots( two AI's) and ship em if they don't take. Still cheaper than owning a bull for 5 cows.

 

[cmf1]

That's the practice I have adopted.
I have what I have and I do what I can do.
If an animal can't thrive on my practices, they've got to go elsewhere.
Now also, if a cow can't breed AI she can work for somebody else.
That's why I'm down in numbers right now.
I could easily go broke catering to individual animals particular needs but my wife won't let me. ;-)
Sometimes it's hard to make that decision, but I've found it leads to harmony in the house and in the pastures.
I tell my wife and the cows regularly that they can be replaced.
My wife doesn't seem to ever be too concerned about it though. :hide:

 

[3waycross]

That's the practice I have adopted.
I have what I have and I do what I can do.
If an animal can't thrive on my practices, they've got to go elsewhere.
Now also, if a cow can't breed AI she can work for somebody else.
That's why I'm down in numbers right now.
I could easily go broke catering to individual animals particular needs but my wife won't let me. ;-)
Sometimes it's hard to make that decision, but I've found it leads to harmony in the house and in the pastures.
I tell my wife and the cows regularly that they can be replaced.
My wife doesn't seem to ever be too concerned about it though. :hide:

That's cuz she will get 1/2 your stuff! The cows just get gone

 

[cmf1]

That sounds like the voice of experience on both fronts.

Thanks for the comment on the calf by the way.

 

[A-RRanch]

Fantastic advice and I just reached out to Integrated Breeders Services in Wheelock. Anybody familiar with them? I am going to call Bovine Elite tomorrow as well. CMF1 you make alot of sense and seem to be coming from a similar set up as I have. I am not doing anything pure bred. This is strictly commercial cow/calf and even tho Im tiny its 100% about making a few dollars on this land I have.

 

[greybeard]

I think AI class at College Station was only around $750 last time I looked too. Add to that cost of your tank, semen, and assorted equipment, but you'll still come out ahead IMO,especially considering the huge selection of genetics available at your fingertips--instead of being locked into whatever bull you would have on property.
(I really need to take my own dang advice too)

 

[cmf1]

I took the class at McNeese State University in Lake Charles La. It was $500 for 4 1/2 days of serious good information and all the cows you could stand.
I'll probably do it again this year.
It was one of my best vacations ever.
I got a lot out of it.
I'm still paying a buddy to come help me AI this year as I haven't achieved the comfort level I'd like, and I want them caught.
A little insurance.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Won't you still need a clean up bull if you AI?

We AI everything, and embryo work. We do not keep bulls beyond yearlings, so we do not have clean up bulls. We run around 25 to 30 females, and have had to ship some really nice females because they did not breed back or keep an embryo. I just see no reason to own a bull when I can use a variety of genetics by AI. Our place is too small to keep a bull around.
To answer your question, a bull can breed cows as early as 12 months, but he needs extra feed so he can grow. All of our bulls we develop are usually sold at 12 months with a breeding guarantee, clean trich test, and are all floored at$2000. We have sold a bull calf off the cow for $1800, but no breeding guarantee on those since we can not control how they are fed and developed beyond that point.

 

[Dave]

Won't you still need a clean up bull if you AI?

There are three dairies within a few miles of my place who haven't had a bull on the farm since 1980 or earlier. I am sure they shipped a good cow or two over the years but in the long run it has worked for them. You can buy reasonable yearling bulls for $1,500 or a little less but with the cost of care and feed AI is cheaper on 5 head. And if you have the room to run one more animal why not make it another cow who will make you money.

Last week I sync'ed and bred 55 heifers AI. The cost of drugs, semen, cidr's, and a guy who did the breeding came to about $50 a head. If you can find someone local to you to do the breeding it is a whole bunch cheaper on 5 cows than feeding a bull or even going to AI school and doing it yourself.

 

[A-RRanch]

I am for sure sold on AI now after this thread. Living here in College Station I have alot of resources available to me as well! Another benefit from AI for me personally is that I can keep some of my heifer calves to grow my cow herd with the kind of cows I want, raised here on the place. It mkes my life easier Im thinking....