When to put out hay

[anewcomer]

Don't think that I know much. But I can grow grass much better than I can produce hay.

towards spring i usually find someone with old hay that's not much good because it's been out all winter. I get it free or very cheap and unroll it to the cows. It's going to be the only fertilizer I use next year.

Don't think that I know much. But I can grow grass much better than I can produce hay.
towards spring i usually find someone with old hay that's not much good because it's been out all winter. I get it free or very cheap and unroll it to the cows. It's going to be the only fertilizer I use next year.

Kenny, if your cows weigh 1200, that's 42,000 lb. live weight. 10 calves at 300 is 3000, so 45,000 lb. live weight total. At 2 and 1/2% of live weight consumption, that's 1125 lb. DM/herd/day. Times 70 days is 78,750 lb. DM removed from 20 acres. That's right at 4000 lb. DM/A of useable stockpile. Excellent! You're right, daily moves would help tremendously, but sometimes not possible. Let us know when you turn in on it.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

I usually wait until they start busting out onto the neighbor's.

I just hauled your little hammer heads to the auction and told them to make the check out to you.
You're Welcome....

 

[kenny thomas]

Don't think that I know much. But I can grow grass much better than I can produce hay.


Kenny, if your cows weigh 1200, that's 42,000 lb. live weight. 10 calves at 300 is 3000, so 45,000 lb. live weight total. At 2 and 1/2% of live weight consumption, that's 1125 lb. DM/herd/day. Times 70 days is 78,750 lb. DM removed from 20 acres. That's right at 4000 lb. DM/A of useable stockpile. Excellent! You're right, daily moves would help tremendously, but sometimes not possible. Let us know when you turn in on it.

I will get some pictures as I turn in. I can safely see 4000 lb per acre. But at 17-19% protein how much do they actually need per day. I normally have loose stools most of the winter.

 

[Lazy M]

I just hauled your little hammer heads to the auction and told them to make the check out to you.
You're Welcome....

Ironically, got a call a neighbor that I had 15 cows out by the road. He opened the gate and let them back into the pasture.. he said that he thought it was weird that they seemed so wild and skittish but not to worry, he got them in.. then I got a call from a guy that runs cows further up the road that said he had 15 cows out and he was looking for them... sounds like I'll be busy sorting cattle this evening..

 

[Warren Allison]

Sitting on the porch in my shorts and no shirt reading this. It is 70 degrees today. Everybody's fescue and clover is still green, but bermuda has gone dormant now. People with bermuda pastures ..who didn't over seed with rye , are probably feeding hay now, or will start to soon. Those with fescue that they haven't overgrazed, or cut for hay, and who limed, fertilized and sprayed correctly, ill probably be good til Christmas. To answer the OP's question: You start feeding hay when there isn't enough grass in the pasture to feed them.

 

[Dave]

It hasn't snowed yet. Most of the cows are still in the hills. Most of the calves were sold at the sale yesterday. Hay is still in the stack yards. The great white cowboy could come along and chase the cows out of the hills any day now but there is nothing in the forecast.

 

[kenny thomas]

Don't think that I know much. But I can grow grass much better than I can produce hay.
towards spring i usually find someone with old hay that's not much good because it's been out all winter. I get it free or very cheap and unroll it to the cows. It's going to be the only fertilizer I use next year.

Might have messed up but a guy messaged yesterday with 60 rolls of 4x5 sitting outside. I offered $15 and he finally came to $18. I think he will settle for $17.50 but I told him to hold it until I look this week. It's a 6 mile haul and he will load it so I guess I will try it.

 

[damengineer]

Might have messed up but a guy messaged yesterday with 60 rolls of 4x5 sitting outside. I offered $15 and he finally came to $18. I think he will settle for $17.50 but I told him to hold it until I look this week. It's a 6 mile haul and he will load it so I guess I will try it.

4x5 rolls are $50 here loaded. I had to buy over 250 bales last year.

 

[damengineer]

I have too many cattle for the land I have. I no-tilled triticale into the pasture a couple months ago and it is growing as much as possible with my cows eating on it constantly. My wheat/triticale pasture is only 3 inches tall because of rain/fertilizer shortage. More like money shortage!! I hauled off 18 head 2 weeks go and took a beating. Had one red horned heifer 650lb only brought 30 cents. Another 500 lb spotted bull only brought 50 cents. 600 lb heifers brought 85 cents. So, I will keep until spring and sell off what I can afford to lose... I hauled them 100 miles away as I got a good price 2 months earlier. If I am going to give them away I might as well go local and sve the time and fuel...... Mine are longhorn/angus crosses. They don't have calving problems and grow good, but don't bring anything... However, when fed out at 18-24 months of age, they are very feed efficient and have a good flavorful and lean meat. Just the right amount of fat... Steaks have great marbling for flavor...

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I find it very interesting that people will breed to correinte (sp?), Longhorn so that they don't have calving problems. I guess I might understand it if they never watch their cattle at calving time, but even at that, if you NEVER see your cows at calving, most cows bred to MOST bulls lay down and spit out a calf. If you NEVER see them, yes, you might lose a calf and/or a cow because of a breech birth or malpresentation, but to me it would be worth it to get a decent size calf that grows and is not discounted at the sale barn.
I breed the "monster Simmental" cattle. Yes, I watch just about every birth. We may assist 1 or 2 a year - twisted twins, breech, normal stuff. We have helped a couple in the past 9 years my nephew has been with me, that were taking too long, but were easy hand pulls. And I don't go out of my way to find super easy calving bulls for my heifers.
I think calving ease is more in having good COWS.

 

[Rydero]

I find it very interesting that people will breed to correinte (sp?), Longhorn so that they don't have calving problems. I guess I might understand it if they never watch their cattle at calving time, but even at that, if you NEVER see your cows at calving, most cows bred to MOST bulls lay down and spit out a calf. If you NEVER see them, yes, you might lose a calf and/or a cow because of a breech birth or malpresentation, but to me it would be worth it to get a decent size calf that grows and is not discounted at the sale barn.
I breed the "monster Simmental" cattle. Yes, I watch just about every birth. We may assist 1 or 2 a year - twisted twins, breech, normal stuff. We have helped a couple in the past 9 years my nephew has been with me, that were taking too long, but were easy hand pulls. And I don't go out of my way to find super easy calving bulls for my heifers.
I think calving ease is more in having good COWS.

The biggest calf in the spring is usually the biggest calf in the fall at my place, We watch them because of the weather though so calving ease/bithweight is just a trait that has to be within a certain range rather than a primary concern. I quickly calculated it though and it I lost the one calf that needed to be pulled in 80 some births (cows only) at my place it'd cost me about $15 per remaining calf to make it up. Pretty easy to do with a higher average weaning weight that goes along with using a "cow killing" breed of bull like Charolais.

Of course we save a bunch of calves from a bunch of other things when we're out checking so I doubt we'll stop any time soon.

 

[callmefence]

I have too many cattle for the land I have. I no-tilled triticale into the pasture a couple months ago and it is growing as much as possible with my cows eating on it constantly. My wheat/triticale pasture is only 3 inches tall because of rain/fertilizer shortage. More like money shortage!! I hauled off 18 head 2 weeks go and took a beating. Had one red horned heifer 650lb only brought 30 cents. Another 500 lb spotted bull only brought 50 cents. 600 lb heifers brought 85 cents. So, I will keep until spring and sell off what I can afford to lose... I hauled them 100 miles away as I got a good price 2 months earlier. If I am going to give them away I might as well go local and sve the time and fuel...... Mine are longhorn/angus crosses. They don't have calving problems and grow good, but don't bring anything... However, when fed out at 18-24 months of age, they are very feed efficient and have a good flavorful and lean meat. Just the right amount of fat... Steaks have great marbling for flavor...

So you spent 15,000 on hay, your overstocked, your already grazing your winter grass before it's even up good. And your going to hold till spring.....Am I the only one scratching my head.

 

[Dave]

I find it very interesting that people will breed to correinte (sp?), Longhorn so that they don't have calving problems. I guess I might understand it if they never watch their cattle at calving time, but even at that, if you NEVER see your cows at calving, most cows bred to MOST bulls lay down and spit out a calf. If you NEVER see them, yes, you might lose a calf and/or a cow because of a breech birth or malpresentation, but to me it would be worth it to get a decent size calf that grows and is not discounted at the sale barn.
I breed the "monster Simmental" cattle. Yes, I watch just about every birth. We may assist 1 or 2 a year - twisted twins, breech, normal stuff. We have helped a couple in the past 9 years my nephew has been with me, that were taking too long, but were easy hand pulls. And I don't go out of my way to find super easy calving bulls for my heifers.
I think calving ease is more in having good COWS.

Is the fact that the calf comes easy worth the beating when you sell? To me it is not. Heck, you could lose a cow calving and still be money ahead by getting full value for the other calves.

 

[Warren Allison]

I don't think the ease in calving is the sole reason people use Criollo cows. There are Angus, Brahmas, and others for calving ease. The other reasons are no calving problems, sure, but also disease, parasite, insect, heat and cold tolerance as well. Added to that is, is their ability to thrive on marginal pasture, and the very low purchase prices. One might breed their Black Angus bull to a good Simmental cow, and wean off an $800 calf. Might breed the same bull to a Corriente cow, and wean off a $500 calf. But, for what the Simm cow cost, you could buy 3 Corriente cows. and, feed them for less money than the 1 Simm cow, and spend little to no money on vets, meds, etc. So, three $500 claves will yield you $1500 vs $800. with the same or less inputs.

 

[jltrent]

Might have messed up but a guy messaged yesterday with 60 rolls of 4x5 sitting outside. I offered $15 and he finally came to $18. I think he will settle for $17.50 but I told him to hold it until I look this week. It's a 6 mile haul and he will load it so I guess I will try it.

With the price of fertilizer and all other inputs if good quality hay put up in good shape that is a deal.

 

[Rydero]

One might buy a Simmental cow for less than 3x the cost of a Corriente and might get more than $800 for her calf. One might also get less than $500 for the Corriente calves, might be as low as 30-.50/lb. The Corrientes might eat substantially more than 1/3 what that Simmental eats as well. Heck I might be the world's foremost expert on Corrientes and you might be a donkey Warren.

 

[Dave]

I don't think the ease in calving is the sole reason people use Criollo cows. There are Angus, Brahmas, and others for calving ease. The other reasons are no calving problems, sure, but also disease, parasite, insect, heat and cold tolerance as well. Added to that is, is their ability to thrive on marginal pasture, and the very low purchase prices. One might breed their Black Angus bull to a good Simmental cow, and wean off an $800 calf. Might breed the same bull to a Corriente cow, and wean off a $500 calf. But, for what the Simm cow cost, you could buy 3 Corriente cows. and, feed them for less money than the 1 Simm cow, and spend little to no money on vets, meds, etc. So, three $500 claves will yield you $1500 vs $800. with the same or less inputs.

If this is such a great money maker why aren't you finding pasture and buying 300 or 400 of those cows to make a ton of money? We will be watching.
I can buy a Angus cow for a lot less $ than you are quoting for three corriente cows. That 1,200 pound Angus doesn't eat nearly what 3 corriente cows will need. That is already a scientifically proven fact. Here most pasture leases are based on number of cow calf pairs. So those 3 Corrientes will cost 3 times more April through October. Only money spent around here on vets for cows is preg check. Again 3 times more money. Those cross bred calves might bring $500 if you are lucky. I see a lot of Angus, AnXChar, and black whiteface calves selling for $1,100. Neighbor sold 2 pot loads of 575 pound black and black whiteface steer calves for an average of $1,043.

 

[Warren Allison]

If this is such a great money maker why aren't you finding pasture and buying 300 or 400 of those cows to make a ton of money? We will be watching.

ROFLMAO! In the last year and a half alone, I have bought and sold a lot more than 400 Criollo type cows and heifers!!

I can buy a Angus cow for a lot less $ than you are quoting for three corriente cows.

Yeah, I have been watching an Oregon sale online the past 3 or weeks, and have seen a lot of cows go for $500-$600, even some black ones. But, there weren't many of them I would give $500 for to take home and try to raise calves off of.

Here most pasture leases are based on number of cow calf pairs. So those 3 Corrientes will cost 3 times more April through October.

Down here, as in most places, pasture rent will be so much an acre, or a flat fee.

Only money spent around here on vets for cows is preg check. Again 3 times more money.

I never have, and no one I know ever has, paid a vet to preg check a cow at a farm! The vet will for a couple of bucks at the barn when you bring a cow and want to sell it as bred. They will check her and mark the approximate month of gestation on her.

Those cross bred calves might bring $500 if you are lucky. I see a lot of Angus, AnXChar, and black whiteface calves selling for $1,100. Neighbor sold 2 pot loads of 575 pound black and black whiteface steer calves for an average of $1,043.

The example was IF a 6 mos old Angus x Corr calf brought only $500, and IF a 6 mos old Angus x Simmental calf brought $800. Neither is the case. A 400 or 500 lb polled black Ang x Corr steer will bring what any other commercial Angus, Brangus, Chi-Angus. black baldy or Ang x beef cow will bring that is polled and black. Never hear an auctioneer ever say what kind of Angus cross a calf is, nor who brought it. They don't know what or who. . And no owner I know of is going to try to stand up and say " Hey, that calf's momma is a Corriente". They wouldn't have time as it ran through the ring if they wanted to! Last week a client that had bought some Corriente cows from me last year took a couple of steer calves to the sale. One was 517 lbs and brought 1.59 ( $822.00). The other steer was 487 and brought $1.68 ( $818.00). Both trailer weaned that day. The brought the same as any other black or black baldy polled steer of that size brought that day. Red Angus, red herefords, red Simms, red Limosines, Gerts etc. brought 10 to 15 cents less, as they always do. Char, Char crosses, obvious dairy crosses etc, will bring another dime or so less. Dunno what "pot load" means...assuming you mean a semi-cow trailer load. You'd have to go to every weekly sale, every week, for a month or two, maybe more, to be able to buy a truckload of the same size and color calves around here. And you'd bid on them one at a time.

No one I know intentionally crosses Corrs with Herefords or Charlais or Simmental or dairy, cows or bulls. If it happens, it is an accident. I suppose if they did, that calf wouldn't bring anymore than any other non-black or non-polled mutt would. And no one is raising purebred Corrs to sell the calves by the pound to feed out. If they do, they sell them by the head for roping and dogging. But, I don't give a red rat's a$$ if anyone anywhere else raises this cross or not. I myself, would never have any Continental bull, except Chianina. Black Angus, Black Brangus, Chianina, Chi-Angus Brahma, and Hereford ( because you need them to get Brafords and the like...other than that I got no use for red herefords) are the only bulls I would use for commercial beef. Continental cows, other than Charolais like Simm,. Gelbiev. Limms, etc.... I would consider for use with a homozygous polled black bull, to assure black. polled calves. But, I will buy any breed of cow or bull for less than what it will bring, as long as I can sell it for more than I paid for it, and have a home for it too go straight to. I don;t care if it is a purple zebra striped Watusi...if that's what you want, and I can make money buying you one and selling it to you, then I will say that is the best kind of cow there is!

@Jeanne - Simme Valley had asked why would anyone use Corrientes cows just for calving ease, and I was just telling her calving ease wasn't the ONLY reason they are used.

 

[faster horses]

I will get some pictures as I turn in. I can safely see 4000 lb per acre. But at 17-19% protein how much do they actually need per day. I normally have loose stools most of the winter.

If you were to put out some crap hay, straw, anything dry/old they would eventually eat it for the dry matter and their loose stools would dry up. We laughed when we were told this but we did it and it worked. You can just put a big round bale out and take the wrap off and watch. They won't eat it like they do when on full feed, but they will eventually eat it. It satisfies their dry matter requirement.

 

[Dave]

ROFLMAO! In the last year and a half alone, I have bought and sold a lot more than 400 Criollo type cows and heifers!!




Down here, as in most places, pasture rent will be so much an acre, or a flat fee.

I never have, and no one I know ever has, paid a vet to preg check a cow at a farm! The vet will for a couple of bucks at the barn when you bring a cow and want to sell it as bred. They will check her and mark the approximate month of gestation on her.



The example was IF a 6 mos old Angus x Corr calf brought only $500, and IF a 6 mos old Angus x Simmental calf brought $800. Neither is the case. A 400 or 500 lb polled black Ang x Corr steer will bring what any other commercial Angus, Brangus, Chi-Angus. black baldy or Ang x beef cow will bring that is polled and black. Never hear an auctioneer ever say what kind of Angus cross a calf is, nor who brought it. They don't know what or who. . And no owner I know of is going to try to stand up and say " Hey, that calf's momma is a Corriente". They wouldn't have time as it ran through the ring if they wanted to! Last week a client that had bought some Corriente cows from me last year took a couple of steer calves to the sale. One was 517 lbs and brought 1.59 ( $822.00). The other steer was 487 and brought $1.68 ( $818.00). Both trailer weaned that day. The brought the same as any other black or black baldy polled steer of that size brought that day. Red Angus, red herefords, red Simms, red Limosines, Gerts etc. brought 10 to 15 cents less, as they always do. Char, Char crosses, obvious dairy crosses etc, will bring another dime or so less. Dunno what "pot load" means...assuming you mean a semi-cow trailer load. You'd have to go to every weekly sale, every week, for a month or two, maybe more, to be able to buy a truckload of the same size and color calves around here. And you'd bid on them one at a time.

No one I know intentionally crosses Corrs with Herefords or Charlais or Simmental or dairy, cows or bulls. If it happens, it is an accident. I suppose if they did, that calf wouldn't bring anymore than any other non-black or non-polled mutt would. And no one is raising purebred Corrs to sell the calves by the pound to feed out. If they do, they sell them by the head for roping and dogging. But, I don't give a red rat's a$$ if anyone anywhere else raises this cross or not. I myself, would never have any Continental bull, except Chianina. Black Angus, Black Brangus, Chianina, Chi-Angus Brahma, and Hereford ( because you need them to get Brafords and the like...other than that I got no use for red herefords) are the only bulls I would use for commercial beef. Continental cows, other than Charolais like Simm,. Gelbiev. Limms, etc.... I would consider for use with a homozygous polled black bull, to assure black. polled calves. But, I will buy any breed of cow or bull for less than what it will bring, as long as I can sell it for more than I paid for it, and have a home for it too go straight to. I don;t care if it is a purple zebra striped Watusi...if that's what you want, and I can make money buying you one and selling it to you, then I will say that is the best kind of cow there is!

@Jeanne - Simme Valley had asked why would anyone use Corrientes cows just for calving ease, and I was just telling her calving ease wasn't the ONLY reason they are used.

I am sorry that the numbers, quality , and sale experience of cattle in your area doesn't even compare to that in this part of the world. If you watched cows sell for $500-600 in Oregon they were going to slaughter. Hay is scarce and expensive. Bottom end and old cows are going to the sale by the thousands.