Wheat Supply and demand.

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Van,
Re:
First of all, what do these numbers represent? It can't be total acres nationwide and it surely can't be average bushels/acre. What then? Did you take these figures from just one state to prove something about nataionwide production? That ain't gonna fly very far around here.
They are somn numbers from :
http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/na ... 1-2007.pdf

http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/na ... 1-2006.pdf
And I just rounded them off.
You need to get your glasses out to read those!

Re:
Have you been drinking again?
YES! But I wasn't when I did that math.
I guess the kids are right, I can hide my own Easter eggs this year!
SL
 
Sir Loin":2l50vlt4 said:
Corn Harvested ********** WHEAT Harvested
2005 = 30.3 ***************** 2005 = 13.6
2006 = 28.7 -1.6 ************* 2006 = 12.5 -1.1
2007 = 34.8 +4.5 ************* 2007 = 14.5 +0,9
Net gain/loss + 2.9 ********************* -1.1


Now how do you explain these figures away?
SL
Before I can explain away those numbers and believe me I will. How about you try telling me where you got them. They are obviously not total acres harvested for the United States. Why are you picking just a certain state is it to try and further your silly arguement against ethanol?
 
Now I have another question for you to answer.
If we save 2.5 gal of gasoline per 1 bushel of corn, how many gal of gasoline does it take to produce 1 bushel of corn?
Hummmm? :secret:
SL
 
AB,
Re:
This created wheat losses in 1995 of about $35 million. How do you "wash" that??
Easy! That was 12 years ago and is history. When working with commodities you use no more then a 5 year cumulative. This should be ample time for supply and demand to equalize from what ever catastrophic failure you care to name.
It's known as using a trailing 5 year cumulative, same as you see in the stock market for stocks when they say TTM ( trailing twelve months).
But yes, as you say, a Wheat Curl Mite infestation should be taken into account if it is in the cumulative period.
Repeat:
Now I have another question for you to answer.
If we save 2.5 gal of gasoline per 1 bushel of corn, how many gal of gasoline does it take to produce 1 bushel of corn?
SL
 
Sir Loin":3gwedo31 said:
You all are correct in what you say about weather being a factor, but remember that the very same weather factor you apply to wheat you must also apply to corn. So in reality your argument about weather is a wash as it applies to both crops equally, except for maybe some small local weather . And that is what we are talking about. "Production of corn vs. wheat".
Now take a look at these harvested numbers.
As you can clearly see, corn harvest was up and wheat harvest was down. And unless someone has figured out how to make new tillable land, corn had to have been planted instead of wheat, or some other crops.



Corn Harvested ********** WHEAT Harvested
2005 = 30.3 ***************** 2005 = 13.6
2006 = 28.7 -1.6 ************* 2006 = 12.5 -1.1
2007 = 34.8 +4.5 ************* 2007 = 14.5 +0,9
Net gain/loss + 2.9 ********************* -1.1


Now how do you explain these figures away?
SL

Not so...corn and wheat have a totally different growing and harvest season and are often planted next to each other. You can have a drought during the wheat season and destroy production followed by perfect growing conditions for corn in the very same area and have a bumper crop and vice versa......We had that exact thing last year. Over half the wheat never got harvested due to excessive rain.....rains followed for the corn crops with perfect timing and we had a record crop. Then we got too much rain for some cotton growing areas and lost thousands of acres of cotton.
 
I have come to the conclusion that someone in this conversation went to school riding the ''short'' bus :wave:
 
Mwj,
Re:
I have come to the conclusion that someone in this conversation went to school riding the ''short'' bus
Hey, stop stealing my lines.
And some other people in this conversation sat in the front seat and back seat at the same time while riding to school!
:tiphat:
 
TexasBred,
Yes you are right about allot of the wheat not being harvested here in Texas last year. Last Memorial day, we had some of the best looking wheat in a long time and every one was very happy as the droughts of 2005 and 2006 had made for some lean years. July 4th only very little of the wheat in my area had been harvested, I would estimate 5 to 10% harvested, the rest was ruined in the field still standing, most of the crop was sprouting in the head. It was August before we could get back in fields. Not sure how much of Texas was like this but I know several counties around here were like this.
Now corn, milo and soybeans made great. It has been a long time when we had perfect weather for all in a given year, usually one does better than the others.
We had some of the highest quantity of hay this year, but it was very very low quality. Weather can play a big part of a crop yield/quality in any year.
 
Sir Loin":1xj71a3g said:
Mwj,
Re:
I have come to the conclusion that someone in this conversation went to school riding the ''short'' bus
Hey, stop stealing my lines.
And some other people in this conversation sat in the front seat and back seat at the same time while riding to school!
:tiphat:

And some rode on the luggage rack and played with themselves.
 
A/B
Re:
I still don't see any convincing argument that wheat supply has any connection to corn production/ethanol.
Then you probably never will. But thanks for your participation anywho.
SL
 
FYI: From the latest to chime in on ethanol..
What about the myth that we are running out of flour because of ethanol production? In the latest version of the "food versus fuel" myth, the American Bakers Association blamed ethanol production for the shortage in wheat, arguing that farmers switched from wheat to corn and thus caused the current shortage.

Golden wheat real gold?
With the price of wheat doubling in a year, the staff of life is in danger of becoming luxury food

By Anne Kibbler | Hoosier Times
Saturday March 22, 2008
Just a year ago, you could buy a loaf of whole wheat bread at local supermarkets for a little more than $2.50. For the same loaf today, you can count on adding close to a dollar.
Poor wheat harvests around the world in the last couple of years have had a domino effect on the market for flour-based goods such as bread and pasta. Even farmers who rely on wheat to plump up poultry and other animals for meat and dairy products eventually may pass along the cost to the consumer. And there's an environmental angle, too: With more U.S. farmland - not to mention government incentives - being devoted to raising corn for ethanol, there's less land for wheat.
Snip
Two years ago, said Alexander, the average price of wheat was $3.42 a bushel. The U.S. Department of Agriculture is projecting that the average price per bushel for this year will be about $6.65. For hard red spring wheat, a high quality grain used for breads, the Minneapolis Grain Exchange is posting record high prices of $25 a bushel.
Grumbling over ethanol mounts among food execs
Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:02pm EDT
By Ben Klayman - Analysis
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Prices for commodities are steadily rising and top food industry executives are grumbling that costs will not fall as long as the U.S. government continues to subsidize corn growers for making ethanol.
The ethanol industry has been blamed for everything from rising food prices to environmental damage, and its heavy use of corn has even divided the farm community. Grain farmers celebrate record prices while livestock producers and bakers complain about rising costs.
The subject should be revisited by lawmakers, according to top executives at the Reuters Food Summit in Chicago this week. Some said production of renewable fuels should be capped or other benefits stripped away, or consumers' wallets will continue to feel the pinch.
"We would love to have that acreage focused on wheat and products that are going into food, but it is what it is at this point," Sara Lee Corp North American Chief Operating Officer CJ Fraleigh said of the corn being used for ethanol.
"The pure economics of ethanol do not support that as being a good economic decision," he added. "In the short term, the use of corn for ethanol is not a good decision for the American consumer."
Ethanol has been touted as a way to reduce America's dependence on foreign oil. Corn use for ethanol tripled from 2001 to 2006, and the government estimates that one of every four bushels of corn produced this year will be used for ethanol.
Policy makers are pushing that surge. An energy bill signed into law in December calls for production of 9 billion gallons of renewable fuel this year, up from 5 billion in 2005, and rising to 36 billion gallons in 14 years.
Yep folks, you can put ethanol on the shelf right beside all those 55 MPH signs and save the trees (paper) use plastic and don't use plastic use cloth bags to shop, all of which were jokes also!!
The fact is, this so called environmental movement, is nothing but one BFJ.
Case closed!
TTFN
SL :tiphat:
 
One more thing :help: If not for corn being planted on traditional high producing wheat acres. For instance Western MN, the Red River country and Eastern ND. It would be safe to say the 07 wheat crop would have included another 3-5 million acres. And there is no doubt why corn is being planted instead of wheat. :compute:
 
mnmtranching":1vb282bf said:
One more thing :help: If not for corn being planted on traditional high producing wheat acres. For instance Western MN, the Red River country and Eastern ND. It would be safe to say the 07 wheat crop would have included another 3-5 million acres. And there is no doubt why corn is being planted instead of wheat. :compute:


If you believe all the gloom and doom that you read then the wheat should take acres from corn. The article SL posted was spring wheat at $21.00 a bushel so that would be 4 times the price of corn with much less input cost :wave:
 
Sir Loin":1h1ekzfr said:
FYI: From the latest to chime in on ethanol..
What about the myth that we are running out of flour because of ethanol production? In the latest version of the "food versus fuel" myth, the American Bakers Association blamed ethanol production for the shortage in wheat, arguing that farmers switched from wheat to corn and thus caused the current shortage.

Golden wheat real gold?
With the price of wheat doubling in a year, the staff of life is in danger of becoming luxury food

By Anne Kibbler | Hoosier Times
Saturday March 22, 2008
Just a year ago, you could buy a loaf of whole wheat bread at local supermarkets for a little more than $2.50. For the same loaf today, you can count on adding close to a dollar.
Poor wheat harvests around the world in the last couple of years have had a domino effect on the market for flour-based goods such as bread and pasta. Even farmers who rely on wheat to plump up poultry and other animals for meat and dairy products eventually may pass along the cost to the consumer. And there's an environmental angle, too: With more U.S. farmland - not to mention government incentives - being devoted to raising corn for ethanol, there's less land for wheat.
Snip
Two years ago, said Alexander, the average price of wheat was $3.42 a bushel. The U.S. Department of Agriculture is projecting that the average price per bushel for this year will be about $6.65. For hard red spring wheat, a high quality grain used for breads, the Minneapolis Grain Exchange is posting record high prices of $25 a bushel.
Grumbling over ethanol mounts among food execs
Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:02pm EDT
By Ben Klayman - Analysis
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Prices for commodities are steadily rising and top food industry executives are grumbling that costs will not fall as long as the U.S. government continues to subsidize corn growers for making ethanol.
The ethanol industry has been blamed for everything from rising food prices to environmental damage, and its heavy use of corn has even divided the farm community. Grain farmers celebrate record prices while livestock producers and bakers complain about rising costs.
The subject should be revisited by lawmakers, according to top executives at the Reuters Food Summit in Chicago this week. Some said production of renewable fuels should be capped or other benefits stripped away, or consumers' wallets will continue to feel the pinch.
"We would love to have that acreage focused on wheat and products that are going into food, but it is what it is at this point," Sara Lee Corp North American Chief Operating Officer CJ Fraleigh said of the corn being used for ethanol.
"The pure economics of ethanol do not support that as being a good economic decision," he added. "In the short term, the use of corn for ethanol is not a good decision for the American consumer."
Ethanol has been touted as a way to reduce America's dependence on foreign oil. Corn use for ethanol tripled from 2001 to 2006, and the government estimates that one of every four bushels of corn produced this year will be used for ethanol.
Policy makers are pushing that surge. An energy bill signed into law in December calls for production of 9 billion gallons of renewable fuel this year, up from 5 billion in 2005, and rising to 36 billion gallons in 14 years.
Yep folks, you can put ethanol on the shelf right beside all those 55 MPH signs and save the trees (paper) use plastic and don't use plastic use cloth bags to shop, all of which were jokes also!!
The fact is, this so called environmental movement, is nothing but one BFJ.
Case closed!
TTFN
SL :tiphat:

Sorry I quoted the wheat at $21 instead of $25 I wouldn't want it to be to cheap and rob more corn acres.
 
Doesn't mean anything. :oops:

But My 08 crop report is. :wave:

Less total acres of corn.
More acres of wheat.
More acres of soy beans.
More acres of other small grains.
Few new CRP acres.
Lots of CRP acres not being under new contract.
Far less acres under hay production.

========== higher corn and feed grain prices, somewhat lower wheat and Soy bean prices. And much higher cost of production for the cow/calf producer. Corn will reach new records simply because of more use by the ethanol industry.

I do welcome other ideas on this. But a open mind from corn producers. :welcome:
 
A/B
That's just the same old smoke and mirrors propaganda that we have already discussed.
So stop
horse.gif

Go get the last 5 years, that's 2007 – 2006 – 2005 – 2004 - 2003, for both ALL wheat and corn grain HARVESTED, not PLANTED and I will be happy to discuss it with you.
SL :tiphat:
 
FYI:
Ag economist says world grain demand straining U.S. supply
By Hanson Young (Created: Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:11 AM EDT)
Consumers usually reduce their purchases of goods and services if prices become too high. Buyers of United States corn, soybeans and wheat seem to be ignoring that economic principle, however, as the nation's grain stocks reach critically low levels, according to the following information provided by Chris Hurt, a Purdue University agricultural economist.Snip snip
For some U.S. crops, it's almost too late. The 2007 U.S. wheat crop is virtually sold out, while domestic soybean stocks soon will fall below a 20-day supply. Corn inventories are stronger, but with demand from export markets, the livestock industry and ethanol plants, supplies also could be just as scarce for the 2008 crop. The condition could become more serious if adverse weather trims U.S. crop yields this summer and fall. The situation is reminiscent of another run on U.S. grain one generation ago, Hurt said.
Source: http://www.kpcnews.com/articles/2008/03 ... 941957.txt

When wheat shortage hurts bakers, it hurts everyone
Dan Morgan 03/23/2008
The bakers of this country are hurting, and therein lies a warning about what may lie ahead for U.S. agriculture.
About 80 of them were in Washington recently, visiting congressional offices, the White House and U.S Department of Agriculture, and issuing a three-point plan for alleviating the "current crisis" of high wheat prices and shortages.
The American Bakers Association favors slashing acreage in the federal Conservation Reserve Program to free more land for wheat production; waiving the just-enacted biofuel requirements if necessary to head off severe economic harm and "giving priority to the needs of the domestic food industry" when U.S. wheat stocks drop too low.
Such a call for government intervention in the farm economy seems strangely anachronistic in today's booming, globalized agriculture.
We've seen blips before. High commodity prices invariably cause a backlash from consumers, the livestock industry, advocates for the poor and importers overseas. They demand "action" from politicians to help ease prices and curb shortages. Farmers respond by increasing their crops. Soon enough the situation corrects itself and we're back to low prices, surpluses and farmers saying, "We told you so."
Yet what is occurring in the markets, and in American agriculture, feels different this time around. That's why it's important to take the bakers seriously.
Hundreds of millions of people in Asia are flooding into urban centers where they can be fed more easily by imports than by inefficient farmers in their own countries. Incomes are rising and people have the money to buy more bread, vegetable oils and meat, best supplied by global trade.
In the United States and Europe, stepped-up requirements for the use of biofuels is another new factor that is building a higher floor under prices. (There was no such ethanol mandate when Congress wrote the last farm bill in 2002.)
Meanwhile, soaring oil prices are providing incentives for gasoline makers to blend cheaper domestic ethanol, quite aside from the biofuel mandates.
The result has been record commodity prices. Global stocks of edible oils -- palm, rape, soy and sunflower -- are at a 30-year low. Spring wheat prices topped $20 a bushel in the Minneapolis Grain Exchange. Some bakers fear the U.S. could soon run out of rye bread. U.S. supplies reportedly are tapped out, and millers are shopping in Europe for rye.
 
A/B,
Let's see if you can comprehend "un-harvested wheat as a cover crop"
FYI:
Wheat that is planted and not harvested is used for either pasture, hay or a winter cover crop and that is exactly why you must use harvested, NOT planted.
Your turn, and please don't just repeat yourself, as that is getting old!
S/L :tiphat:

Crop rotations were corn-wheat-corn-wheat and corn-wheat-. soybean-wheat, in which the winter wheat was not harvested but used as a cover crop.
Source: http://ifs.orst.edu/pubs/StripTillVegPro.html
No-till cotton following a wheat cover crop was compared to no-till cotton without a cover crop in nine paired fields in Mississippi, USA, in 2000-02. A wheat cover crop was found to significantly increase the yield of no-till cotton by an average of 11.96% or 110 lbs lint/acre. The net value of the average response of no-till cotton to a wheat cover crop was estimated to be $48.95/acre. Wheat as a cover crop improves the yield and profitability of no-till cotton.
Source: http://www.cababstractsplus.org/google/ ... 0043109035
 
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