What's the scoop on braford attitude?

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I assume those are your kids in your avatar. You can't just go buy a Brahmans or F1s off the street and think you will go out there with a herd of kids and pack of dogs and work cows. It will be a train wreck. You will have to make sure the cattle have been exposed to both.

My son couldn't hardly be on foot in a pasture until he was 14 or 15. We were cutting hay strings and he got a little far from me when is was 11 or 12. I looked up and a big brimmer cow had stepped out of the brush with a new born in tow not too far from him. She was not liking what she saw. I hollered for him to freeze and I started calling her to get her attention on me and not him. I was able to ease up to him and I basically put him him in line behind me and we walked together as I talked to her. It was pretty tense for both of us.

A friend of mine has several young boys and I'm always telling him they can't be out with the cows or work cows with us and he always tries to push it or doesn't pay attention. It makes me a nervous wreck. One got off the buggy in the pasture one time and I saw a cow perk up... then I saw the boy. I ran over and grabbed him and spun as I kicked at her head and hollered. Thought for sure she was about to smoke me but luckily she didn't. She was just a cross bred.

Those cows don't need guard dogs or livestock dogs to move them. They need need positive reinforcement, a calm handler, and good facilities.

I have stories and stories about dogs, kids, and cows.

If you go that route I would start with like weaned heifers and pen them up by the dogs and kids and stuff and let them acclimate with a good solid fence between them.

Having some Hereford cows and AI-ing out to Brahman bulls would probably work out also.

Dogs and kids are a risk with all cattle. It's an environmental deal if they have not been around them. With Brahman or Brahman Xs, it's more so.
That makes sense. I was the only help we usually had so I got given a lot of leeway and responsibilities young, but then again those cattle saw me around from the time I was a toddler forward, and every generation we ever raised after. Maybe the heifer route is the way, I sure don't shine to having a bunch of big grey brahma mamas anyway.
 
And thanks, y'all. Used to be if I wanted to chew the fat, play 20 questions and talk somebody's ear off about cows I could call up my grandfather but he's passed. Y'all have been real helpful.
 
It took me a long time to get one of my neighbor's wives to learn it was not a good idea to spread her and her grandkids out in a line trying to move a bunch of mommas and their calves toward a pen. Told her 3 different times to leave the kids in the truck. All the whooping and hollering and throwing sticks trying to head one off was hard to watch. In the end, they were all wore out, cows scattered and just a few in the pen and they were not the ones she wanted. The human hasn't been born that can outrun or out maneuver a cow (a few bullfighters excepted) . Told her: "If they can't run around you they'll run over you and stop all that yelling. That's for TV and movies".

A bunch of bucket cows are a pleasure to have.
(unless you're walking across the pasture to go fishing in the pond and have a minnow bucket in your hand & I once felt something breathing down my neck one evening and turned to find a cow out on the dock behind me to see what I had in that bucket)
Her husband could lead them anywhere with a 5 gal bucket bucket but she just didn't 'get' that idea. ( think she was scared to get in front of them)
 
I keep the herd of Brahmans in a pasture at the main house for the exposure to people, dogs, etc. I've seen what happens when they get left to themselves. One day I roll up to the house and some of the family is standing about 5' from a 3-4' board fence hold several little **** tzu looking dogs. 5' on the pasture side is Brimmer momma with a calf. She had her head down and was shaking back and forth at them.

I jump out and head right to them and use it as a teaching moment. She was grazing the overspray of the sprinklers and they thought it would be cool to check out her calf.

She ended up hitting the road when that calf got a little bigger. She was pretty salty. She was bordline for me and I wasn't going to risk it with my son and the owners family like that.

The Brimmers that did acclimate are real chill. I get people to throw cubes to them from across the fence. The like to take pics and check out the calves and stuff.
 
Heifers bring their own set of problems...
This is also true. I've only ever had to pull a calf or two so I don't know that I'd rate as good at it.

What would you do in my shoes for this? Brahma bull on Hereford cows? Vice versa? Attentive care on heifers? Just say to heck with it and buy some brafords somebody else bred up?
 
That depends on your appetite for spending money versus spending time and money.
Asking someone else what they would do means you're asking them, with their experience and years to put themselves in your place not knowing fully what your experience is.
It rarely works out. Apples to oranges.

The unknown is how much pasture you have, how many head you want to start with, if you will start with enough of either to justify keeping a bull all year long, if you have adequate fencing and facilities and a whole host of other unknowns.


IF, I were going to get into F1 Brafords today, (I'm not) I would go with older brahma cows (not heifers) already bred to a 'known' low bw polled hereford bull and probably would not buy them at a sale barn. Then, find an AI guy and have the cows AI'd next time around. Why? I'm limited to how many I have forage for without leasing pasture and limited to time in that I'm already pushing age 72.
Heifers are just a pain in the ass no matter what.

Nothing wrong with salebarn cattle but not a great idea for starting out or those with limited experience.


Back in the day, ('66 I think) my father, my twin and i started This place, with 3 registered polled Herefords bred to a Brahma bull. He bought them bred, from a breeder south of Baytown Texas over in Chambers County. Within 7 months they were resting in 3 nice mounded up graves for all of eternity, each with a dead calf either with them or hanging out of them. (we didn't live on this place , we lived 45 miles away and we checked them every few days) $$ down the drain. It was crossbreds from then on, with a registered bull for many years.

I chose sim/char crosses, with a Char bull (bought someone else's herd) and full blood beefmasters using both a char bull or beefmaster bull. Pulled 2-3 calves in 10 years and lost only one of those..1st calf heifer.
Got my pastures leased now as we are trying to move back West and I am probably done with cows altogether.
 
Heifers bring their own set of problems...
You should have little to no calving problems out of Brahman X unless you get real crazy with bulls. Especially running a Black Angus bull back on them. F1s can spit those black calves out like watermelon seeds.

Heifers may not be the most economical but that went out the window with the dogs and kids. You are going to pay $$$ for time to aclimate or to purchase kid/dog broke cows.
 
Hey, I have one more question on this topic. I have two dogs, one herding/guarding breed puppy who I hope to make a good livestock dog out of, and one absolute mutt of a shepherd mix who is loyal to the last ounce of his being but has about the grace and forbearance of a drunken disco dancer when it comes to being around livestock. Horses don't much care for him, cattle find him slightly annoying at best, goats abhor him, chickens run from him and there's about a 75% chance he will try to play with calves. Is there anything that I can do to prevent a protective mama cow from a breed like this from mashing his head in? We had a good herd/watch dog or two before but they were much more agreeable to animals.
Most any good mama cow will smoke a dog that messes with her calf, brimmer crosses and longhorn will usually smoke one with or without a calf. I had a longhorn that would run a long way just for the opportunity to smoke a dog.
 
I don't know what to advise you, but you have KIDS - they come FIRST. I would NOT pick an "iffy" temperament breed. You are asking for trouble.
If you are not willing to start out with heifers, it is difficult to buy someone else's cows that may or may not be acclimated to kids.
Now, add dog(s)!
You need to buy from an individual that already has kids, dogs & cattle - no matter what breed.
If you are willing to start out with heifers, you have time to get them used to the kids/cattle.
But, be very clear. ALL MAMA COWS are a risk at calving time. I don't care how puppy-dog friendly she is. They have the ability to become a different beast at calving.
 
This is also true. I've only ever had to pull a calf or two so I don't know that I'd rate as good at it.

What would you do in my shoes for this? Brahma bull on Hereford cows? Vice versa? Attentive care on heifers? Just say to heck with it and buy some brafords somebody else bred up?
Vice Versa or just buy Brafords.
 
Not denying the usefulness of them, I like horses as stated and have owned some good ones, a few bad ones too. I'm just spoiled growing up being able to mostly work our stuff without them. I've needed horses more to get other horses someplace than cattle. My uncle used to buy horses by the trailer load and uh... some of the folks weren't so honest about the temperaments of their animals. Nothing like a fresh load of a dozen crazies holing up in the thick stuff.
This is the way I handle cattle on horses, just like @TCRanch. The key is to be quite and easy with them. With MY cattle I never drove a truck or 4 wheeler etc in the pasture to just check on them etc. If I am in an enclosure with cattle, it is on horseback. When I have cattle on a homeplace or a place I am keeping horses, I saddle up every day I can, and just ride out to them and ease among them, often just sitti8ng my horse among them for a while. This is part of the horse's training, but the cattle benefit from it too. Watch a cutting competition, when the rider is easing through the herd to filter out the one he wants to cut. That is how you handle cows with horses. Now, if need be, I have 2 that can run down any wild-ass cow there is in just a short time. They can head and heel a 2500lb bull and hold him like he is stuck in concrete. And either one can drag a bull that size onto a trailer like he weighed 100 lbs.

I DO NOT want a damned dog anywhere near me, my horses, or the cattle! If someone calls me about catching cattle for them, the first thing I ask is if they have been trying to get them with 4wheelers/ATVs and/or dogs. If they have, I tell them I won't be able to get around to them, and refer them to someone else who uses tranq guns, etc.

Granted, if I hadn't have had horses all my life, I would never have fooled with any cattle. I never used horses to work cattle, or had cattle as the main source of revenue. I had cattle to train horses which has always been my source of revenue. I realize a lot of people do not have the time, or know-how, to use horses on their cattle. But, if you have the right kind of horses, and know how to use them, then there is nothing more satisfying than working cattle on a fine horse. Even Brahmas.
 
I got a F-1 Brahman/Jersey new mom that just warned the Mule fifty yards from a black dot. I will learn the sex in couple days.

I'll bet she raises good calves. Back in the '80's I had a few Holstein x Brahman F1's I raised on the bottle. I was using a Simmental bull back then, and those cows raised some calves that really mashed on the scales.
 
I got a F-1 Brahman/Jersey new mom that just warned the Mule fifty yards from a black dot. I will learn the sex in couple days.View attachment 14768
I had a jersey x brahma that calved out of the first cows I ever had, and that may have been the best mama I ever had. She was as gentle as a dog with anyone or anything she knew but the pleasantries stopped the minute somebody or something funky came around. She produced heavy on milk too.
 
Everyone has different requirements for their cows.. I want mine to be nice 365 days a year and know 2 legs good 4 legs bad... I have some cows that are friendly but #$%# stupid and unworkable, they just lose all their marbles if you put any pressure on them... I've gotten rid of the worst offenders, I have none that are aggressive at calving time now.. it's taken 30 years to get here!
I don't have a dog, so if there's a dog, yote, cougar or bear around, the cows get pretty upitty real fast, this is one of themIMG_20190310_134840 Cenci.jpg

Salers cattle were known to be "One man cows" (cow above is 1/4 Salers) and we sure had our experiences with them.. boy could they jump and be mean mommas, but I had some that were the most docile cows as well..

Here's the temperament I go for in calves (son of the cow above)20190906_095032 Zeus.jpg

I work my cows on foot or on the quad... Long and the short of it.. buy from a place that manages them the way you want to do it


This is the way I handle cattle on horses, just like @TCRanch. The key is to be quite and easy with them. With MY cattle I never drove a truck or 4 wheeler etc in the pasture to just check on them etc. If I am in an enclosure with cattle, it is on horseback. When I have cattle on a homeplace or a place I am keeping horses, I saddle up every day I can, and just ride out to them and ease among them, often just sitti8ng my horse among them for a while. This is part of the horse's training, but the cattle benefit from it too. Watch a cutting competition, when the rider is easing through the herd to filter out the one he wants to cut. That is how you handle cows with horses. Now, if need be, I have 2 that can run down any wild-ass cow there is in just a short time. They can head and heel a 2500lb bull and hold him like he is stuck in concrete. And either one can drag a bull that size onto a trailer like he weighed 100 lbs.

I DO NOT want a damned dog anywhere near me, my horses, or the cattle! If someone calls me about catching cattle for them, the first thing I ask is if they have been trying to get them with 4wheelers/ATVs and/or dogs. If they have, I tell them I won't be able to get around to them, and refer them to someone else who uses tranq guns, etc.

Granted, if I hadn't have had horses all my life, I would never have fooled with any cattle. I never used horses to work cattle, or had cattle as the main source of revenue. I had cattle to train horses which has always been my source of revenue. I realize a lot of people do not have the time, or know-how, to use horses on their cattle. But, if you have the right kind of horses, and know how to use them, then there is nothing more satisfying than working cattle on a fine horse. Even Brahmas.
You should look up Satus Stockdogs on Facebook.. those are some seriously amazing dogs that know what they're doing, of course the handler has to know what they're doing too!
 

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