What's most important?

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Anonymous

Let's see where this will go. What are the 5 most important traits you look for when you select a bull, ranked in order of importance. Example: performance, structure, color, size, mature size, epd's, gain, polled vs. horned, mature size, genetics etc. (I have left out 2 of the ones I think are the most important.) I know we will get a variety of answers as different environments dictate different needs.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

1 registered Black Angus / breed 2 Weaning/yearling epd's 3 Carcass/ultrasound epd's 4 pedigree/pictures 5 mature size/frame score

> Let's see where this will go. What
> are the 5 most important traits
> you look for when you select a
> bull, ranked in order of
> importance. Example: performance,
> structure, color, size, mature
> size, epd's, gain, polled vs.
> horned, mature size, genetics etc.
> (I have left out 2 of the ones I
> think are the most important.) I
> know we will get a variety of
> answers as different environments
> dictate different needs.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

In 25 words or less??....lol. Well, #2 Pedigree/lineage. #1 Confirmation--body, topline, spring in ribs, frame size, hip muscleing. #3 Temperament. #4 Horn potential & Ability to "out-produce" himself. #5 Color.

We raise Registered Texas Longhorns. The rankings above of #1 and #2 are close and are probably a tie at "1.5". We also look at a potential bull's scrotum size, clean sheath line, must "look like a bull" (no feminine appearance), and excellent horn growth potential.



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OP
A

Anonymous

That's a loaded question, and judging from the few responses, many don't know how they would answer that.

There are several traits that are equally important.

Fertility is important, because the cattle have to reproduce to gain numbers. Feeding a dry cow isn't profitable.

The calf has to be born alive and healthy. Calving difficulties don't add to the bottom line. However, a small runt won't pay the bills either.

The calf has to wean heavy enough to return a profit to the ranch. Then the calf has to gain fast enough to return a profit to the feeder. Then that same calf has to produce a quality carcass to return a profit to the processor and retailer.

To do some of those things, the breed and temperment of the cattle has to be considered. The structure of the cattle is important as cattle with poor legs and feet don't do well in the feedlot or on the range.

I have listed about 6 or 7 traits that are all of equal importance. If you sacrifice any one for another, the balance is lost and the animal becomes far less profitable, maybe to the point of not generating a profit at all.

Jason Trowbridge Southern Angus Farms Alberta Canada

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OP
A

Anonymous

> In 25 words or less??....lol.
> Well, #2 Pedigree/lineage. #1
> Confirmation--body, topline,
> spring in ribs, frame size, hip
> muscleing. #3 Temperament. #4 Horn
> potential & Ability to
> "out-produce" himself.
> #5 Color.

> We raise Registered Texas
> Longhorns. The rankings above of
> #1 and #2 are close and are
> probably a tie at "1.5".
> We also look at a potential bull's
> scrotum size, clean sheath line,
> must "look like a bull"
> (no feminine appearance), and
> excellent horn growth potential.

Why do people actually think you can make a living and call yourself a rancher when you raise these worthless dairy type cattle.

[email protected]
 
OP
A

Anonymous

Zebu or Italian influence will be a plus in our area, and should be in the Tropical areas. Both of them had proof heat toleration and adaptation to a wide range of feed and climate

> Let's see where this will go. What
> are the 5 most important traits
> you look for when you select a
> bull, ranked in order of
> importance. Example: performance,
> structure, color, size, mature
> size, epd's, gain, polled vs.
> horned, mature size, genetics etc.
> (I have left out 2 of the ones I
> think are the most important.) I
> know we will get a variety of
> answers as different environments
> dictate different needs.

[email protected]
 
OP
A

Anonymous

Well...everyone to their own opinion! Rather than take offense to your comment (along with many other Longhorn breeders being similarly "upset"), let me say that a Texas Longhorn is NOT A DAIRY TYPE ANIMAL! Aren't "dairy" cattle called "Holsteins," "Guernsey (sp.)," and the like??? The Longhorn is a definite beef animal and has breeders, ranchers, and other owners worldwide! There are hundreds of Longhorn cattlemen and cattlewomen with websites, and rather large enterprises. Perhaps you need some more information! Go to the association websites: <A HREF="http://www.itla.com" TARGET="_blank">www.itla.com</A> and <A HREF="http://www.tlbaa.com" TARGET="_blank">www.tlbaa.com</A> for more information. Knowledge is power and power is money! :)

[email protected]
 
OP
A

Anonymous

> Why do people actually think you
> can make a living and call
> yourself a rancher when you raise
> these worthless dairy type cattle.

There is no one breed of cattle that qualifies you as a rancher. We all have a common bond when it comes to cattle, regardless of the breed. We are lucky God has given us so many breeds to enjoy. The West wasn't won on salad. The Longhorn has played a big part in shaping this country and will continue to play a roll in the future. It doesn't do eny of us eny good to bash another mans breed. I know it has been a long winter and the guy with the Longhorns seems to be having too much fun. Well, he is just promoting his breed in his own way. That is what a good cattleman does!
 
OP
A

Anonymous

Jason, it is a VERY loaded question and that's why I asked it. I agree with you on the rest of your points. Everything needs to be kept in balance and will also depend on environment and markets. Your environment usually remains fairly constant but markets often change.

In my mind they are: 1. Fertility 2. Calving ease but bearing in mind that carrying it to far is often wasting potential performance. 3. Fleshing ability/ease of fleshing 4. Performance or growth 5. Balanced EPDs being careful not to focus on one EPD such as marbling to the extent we overlook others. (Of course EPDs is not a trait but an indicator of traits.)

Of course disposition, structure are also very important and color to some extent. The polled or horned factor is a convenience trait for some but a necessity for others.

I guess the question popped in my mind from seeing all the posts re: marbling and don't get me wrong, it is important but be careful we don't ruin a cowherd single trait selecting. The dairy industry has focussed solely on milk production. Their average lifespan and stayability is terrible. At the age a beef cow is hitting her prime the average dairy cow is long gone.

With only my grade 12 and still attending the school of common sense, I never pretend to have all the answers and sure appreciate some other opinions.

> That's a loaded question, and
> judging from the few responses,
> many don't know how they would
> answer that.

> There are several traits that are
> equally important.

> Fertility is important, because
> the cattle have to reproduce to
> gain numbers. Feeding a dry cow
> isn't profitable.

> The calf has to be born alive and
> healthy. Calving difficulties
> don't add to the bottom line.
> However, a small runt won't pay
> the bills either.

> The calf has to wean heavy enough
> to return a profit to the ranch.
> Then the calf has to gain fast
> enough to return a profit to the
> feeder. Then that same calf has to
> produce a quality carcass to
> return a profit to the processor
> and retailer.

> To do some of those things, the
> breed and temperment of the cattle
> has to be considered. The
> structure of the cattle is
> important as cattle with poor legs
> and feet don't do well in the
> feedlot or on the range.

> I have listed about 6 or 7 traits
> that are all of equal importance.
> If you sacrifice any one for
> another, the balance is lost and
> the animal becomes far less
> profitable, maybe to the point of
> not generating a profit at all.

> Jason Trowbridge Southern Angus
> Farms Alberta Canada
 
OP
A

Anonymous

Pat, I still haven't figured out your comment about pedigree/pictures being important.

I try to be careful with the picture thing. Often they are a once in a lifetime shot that is enhanced.

With pedigrees they are like a game sheet that shows what worked and also what didn't.

I wonder why the hog and poultry industries are so consistent in their product. Purebreds and pedigrees don't mean much to them. Just my thoughts.

> 1 registered Black Angus / breed 2
> Weaning/yearling epd's 3
> Carcass/ultrasound epd's 4
> pedigree/pictures 5 mature
> size/frame score
 
OP
A

Anonymous

RR I hope you don't get cross-eyed from looking down your nose at others.

If someone can be happy and successful raising something that I don't, GREAT. Less competition for me in what I'm doing.

RAF was merely answering the question of the thread I started.

If you have the answer we would sure be interested in seeing what you think are THE MOST IMPORTANT TRAITS.

>

> Why do people actually think you
> can make a living and call
> yourself a rancher when you raise
> these worthless dairy type cattle.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

RR's post was a rather pompous comment not really worth responding to --- but I'm still trying to figure out how in the hell he or she can refer to Longhorns as "dairy type" cattle!! Or maybe RR was trying to comment with regard to another post that made reference to short productive lives of actual dairy cattle?
 
OP
A

Anonymous

I evaluate the pedigree to made sure that the bloodlines are compatible with the cows I plan on breeding. I have not had the pleasure of visiting the AI studs to see the bulls in person. If I do not like the bull in the picture I will not use him. There are plenty of AI bulls to chose from.

> Pat, I still haven't figured out
> your comment about
> pedigree/pictures being important.

> I try to be careful with the
> picture thing. Often they are a
> once in a lifetime shot that is
> enhanced.

> With pedigrees they are like a
> game sheet that shows what worked
> and also what didn't.

> I wonder why the hog and poultry
> industries are so consistent in
> their product. Purebreds and
> pedigrees don't mean much to them.
> Just my thoughts.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

While I agree with the characteristics that are deemed importat by most of the posters I think they have them in the wrong order,surprise. Feet and legs first, if they can't get around well in for the long term they're pretty useless. Disposition, if you can't work them what's the use. Fertility, calvin ease, productivity - getting bred on time and calving unassisted, raising a big enough calf to weaning and doing it for many years. After that come the other traits, carcass, and yield. Color and hrons depending on the market color may or may not be significant, polled is preferred to dehorned (unless disbudded at a couple of days of age) because of the stress. Of course this is commercial, can't address seedstock, but these are the traits we look for in bulls that we use in AI

dun

> Let's see where this will go. What
> are the 5 most important traits
> you look for when you select a
> bull, ranked in order of
> importance. Example: performance,
> structure, color, size, mature
> size, epd's, gain, polled vs.
> horned, mature size, genetics etc.
> (I have left out 2 of the ones I
> think are the most important.) I
> know we will get a variety of
> answers as different environments
> dictate different needs.
 

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