What's a bull worth?

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blackcowz":3tevv1e9 said:
Alright, let me put this a little more bluntly. QUIT. This thread is headed south and is now beyond meaningful discussion and disagreement.

blackcowz, you can choose whether to start a thread or not, but I'm not sure that you get to choose when it ends, unless you are a moderator. After you start a thread, they kinda take on a life of their own!

Don't worry! Eventually they all die - or get locked!

George
 
blackcowz":r1u2eh24 said:
Alright, let me put this a little more bluntly. QUIT. This thread is headed south and is now beyond meaningful discussion and disagreement.
You opened this can of worms
You have been on here long enough to know making a post like this will end up like this one has so either live with it or don't post anything that is up for debate like this topic
everyone has a different opinion on what they are willing to pay for a bull
 
Well yes, I started it, and I can't control people. But you folks used to get annoyed when I would promote black hides. I was asked to stop. Now, I'm asking everyone in this thread to stop because we're borderline bashing other operations. You can disagree with others, but this thread was meant to get people's ideas and opinions, not to start an "I'm right, you're wrong" war.
 
blackcowz":39u4b88n said:
Well yes, I started it, and I can't control people. But you folks used to get annoyed when I would promote black hides. I was asked to stop. Now, I'm asking everyone in this thread to stop because we're borderline bashing other operations. You can disagree with others, but this thread was meant to get people's ideas and opinions, not to start an "I'm right, you're wrong" war.
You and I know the only reason they asked you to stop promoting black hides is because they were Jealous and it made them red hide breeders feel bad ;-) ;-)
 
blackcowz":e7budxjp said:
After going through the fun process of selling my first bull, I got the full load of what it takes to get a bull ready for sale, especially if he crosses state lines. I learned a lot, but I sold my bull for a pretty low price because I wasn't sure if he was top notch. He's going to do great for his new owners, but I took care of my uneasiness of pricing bulls in the future by making sure I cut the ones that wouldn't make the cut for next year. (No pun intended.) However, in some reading material, I have learned that a bull is worth roughly the value of 5 cows. At our prices, a bull is worth around $3000, depending on bred or killer cows, which should get you a pretty nice bull. Even an average bull is worth something because a live calf that gets put on the truck is worth far more than one that never makes it into the world. So, when you go buy bulls, do you look for the one that costs the least and will get the job done, or do you figure he's worth more than just 5 cows and really pay attention to paying good money for a good bull? It seems people try to spend as little as possible on bulls, and yet will only look at ones that have a pretty good price tag. As a young seedstock breeder, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts.


Is there that much involved in getting a bull across state lines?? Some of the northern states now require trich testing, but I don't think MO does.....

I could never, ever get my hubby to agree on paying $3000 for a bull. Never. We paid $1800 for a red poll bull and the hubby was throwing a fit over that..... I had to do some talking (sweet talking toooo !!!) I have no regrets paying that for him as his calves are outstanding, even better than him. That's all you can ask of any bull, your hope that he'll throw a calf better than himself.
We weaned off our largest heifer ever, 7 months old at 670 lbs. She's a crossbred (1/4 holstein, 1/4 angus, 1/2 red poll). The purebreds are doing good as well but we haven't weaned any of them yet to know the weights.
If this economy continues, I think you'll find it difficult next year to get that high price from a commercial breeder who runs less than 50 cows..... especially a commercial breeder who sells his calves at the sale barn. I'm getting ready to go to the sale today, but last week an 18 month old registered black angus bull (although no papers were given and I don't blame them either as that is how I would do it as well) sold for $1175. That's an exception probably as one can find many private treaty bulls for $1500 and I think that's more of a commercial man's pricetag.
 
Angus Cowman":aeimnbzw said:
blackcowz":aeimnbzw said:
Well yes, I started it, and I can't control people. But you folks used to get annoyed when I would promote black hides. I was asked to stop. Now, I'm asking everyone in this thread to stop because we're borderline bashing other operations. You can disagree with others, but this thread was meant to get people's ideas and opinions, not to start an "I'm right, you're wrong" war.
You and I know the only reason they asked you to stop promoting black hides is because they were Jealous and it made them red hide breeders feel bad ;-) ;-)

Of course! It's all coming together! :lol: Oh well, life goes on I reckon. MoGal, pretty neat story there. Really glad that bull worked out for ya. Even though he's red.
soapbox.gif

I'll take my own advice and quit right here. And I'm just pulling your leg. Nothing wrong with a good red bovine.
 
greatgerts":8pg08jre said:
HerefordSire":8pg08jre said:
blackcowz":8pg08jre said:
Alright folks, everyone knows where everyone else stands in terms of what to pay for bulls, what qualities they look for, etc. HS, could depend on how much better the 100K bull is. (here we go again) But, I think in 4 pages of posts, opinions have been sufficiently explained. Now shut 'er down before we start knocking other operations or other people. Thanks again for all the great insight.
Cowboy_on_computer.gif


Wrong. The higher priced bull is always better. Remember that next time you sell a bull.

Are you serious? How can you keep saying that the higher dollar bull is ALWAYS better? I have seen decent bulls sell for more than what they are worth, or the bull had some pretty fantastic numbers behind him and some really good bulls not sell very high because of the MARKET that day.

No! It is a marketing technique because the first thing that enters a positive person's mind is the higher priced product is better. A negative person will always think about getting ripped off.
 
HerefordSire":1m65ud28 said:
No! It is a marketing technique because the first thing that enters a positive person's mind is the higher priced product is better. A negative person will always think about getting ripped off.
cfpinz has some $100k vehicles he'll sell you. You'll just have to figure out how to move them
 
dun":uy8llqh3 said:
HerefordSire":uy8llqh3 said:
No! It is a marketing technique because the first thing that enters a positive person's mind is the higher priced product is better. A negative person will always think about getting ripped off.
cfpinz has some $100k vehicles he'll sell you. You'll just have to figure out how to move them

I can tell right now those are good 'uns. The must be the huge ones that cost about $.75M new.
 
HerefordSire":18i8z2om said:
No! It is a marketing technique because the first thing that enters a positive person's mind is the higher priced product is better. A negative person will always think about getting ripped off.


IF you have two REALLY REALLY good bulls you put in a sale, but you (their breeder) like bull A's pedigree, profile, mama, masculinity, etc better than bull B. There is no fault with B, he is just not quite as good in your mind as A, and then they both sell at auction and A brings $2500 and B brings $25,000.....doesn't Bull B become the bull whose picture gets put on your wall??? Nothing against bull A. He went off and bred 20 commercial cows for 3 years and was good at it, but B has his picture in the semen catalog for the next 15 years. Price matters.
 
Brandonm22":37hx3tb3 said:
HerefordSire":37hx3tb3 said:
No! It is a marketing technique because the first thing that enters a positive person's mind is the higher priced product is better. A negative person will always think about getting ripped off.


IF you have two REALLY REALLY good bulls you put in a sale, but you (their breeder) like bull A's pedigree, profile, mama, masculinity, etc better than bull B. There is no fault with B, he is just not quite as good in your mind as A, and then they both sell at auction and A brings $2500 and B brings $25,000.....doesn't Bull B become the bull whose picture gets put on your wall??? Nothing against bull A. He went off and bred 20 commercial cows for 3 years and was good at it, but B has his picture in the semen catalog for the next 15 years. Price matters.

Very good point. The high dollar bull could buy me a new truck while the other could buy me a sled. Which truck do you think I will pick up a date in?
 
Cattleman200":29rlpgiu said:
If every seedstock producer used this mentality they would all be out of business because with their closed herd no one would be buying ANYTHING.

Circle H Ranch
wrong, yet again.
the commercial man would benefit with a consistent source of predictable genetics instead of playing bull shop bingo every time. new breeders have to buy their animals from other breeders; they would also know what they are getting. there would be an actual difference between breeds instead of everybody trying to copy the other guy and ending up with everybody selling the same mediocre-on-average bulls.
 
Brandonm22":24hszl9h said:
An Aero bred bull sired by an Aero bred bull and out of an Aero bred cow MIGHT be marketable.....and it might not.

a gamble i am just fine with. keeping costs low, i can sell bulls as cheap as anybody and make money. let someone buy my cheap bulls and like them; they will be back. educate them about why your linebred, closed herd makes the bull buyer's life easier and you have followers. with something unique, i have something no other breeder has. as for 75+% of bulls sold in the country, there is very little about them that is unique; it usually comes down to how well the "breeder" fed the bull that is sired by Objective or some other 036 and Precision blend with probably a little EXT on the bottom.

if i have bulls left over, i will just steer a few more the next year and make money off of them as commercial calves. when you have the standard high-price/high-expenses operation, commercial prices wont get the bills paid. been there, dispersed that.
 
EAT BEEF":1m8ejakp said:
Are you saying you don't sell any cattle to commercial guys :?: I was thinking that was the point of breeding seedstock. :???:

now that's the laugh i needed! :clap:
 
blackcowz":2rki6t4l said:
Alright, let me put this a little more bluntly. QUIT. This thread is headed south and is now beyond meaningful discussion and disagreement.

if you want it to be over, all you have to do is not click on the thread; it will virtually not exist.

we're just now getting to something useful. :) this is called "frank and direct conversation". embrace it.
 
if i have bulls left over, i will just steer a few more the next year and make money off of them as commercial calves. when you have the standard high-price/high-expenses operation, commercial prices wont get the bills paid. been there, dispersed that.Matt Henley
http://www.5BarX.com

Im curious to know how many of these bulls you are selling at present time? Do you have any cattle at all now?


Circle H Ranch
 
Cattleman200":1g6at0i1 said:
Im curious to know how many of these bulls you are selling at present time? Do you have any cattle at all now?


Circle H Ranch

our family operation dispersed 250 head of registered Angus 18 months ago. moved into a mainly commercial operation selling quite a few commercial calves and 15-20 terminal Angus bulls/yr. as for my special projects: the maternal Angus herd is very young and has a long ways to go, while the Aubrac herd is proving out nicely and growing with one test group (23 hd) of commercial Angus females dropping Aubrac sired calves right now.
 
As a small seedstock producer, the only way you can compete with the big producers is to use AI, exclusively. You will not ever compete with any seedstock producer (large or small) using subpar natural service sires.
1 three yr old bull can serve 30 cows say you spend $3000 on that bull + feed and care for a year
AI 30 cows for Semen $20; Cidr $10; AI tech $20 per cow and even if you have to breed them 2 times to catch that cost = $3000, but you will be having calves from the best bulls anywhere vs the natural herdsire you found.



blackcowz":1y7j9zn4 said:
After going through the fun process of selling my first bull, I got the full load of what it takes to get a bull ready for sale, especially if he crosses state lines. I learned a lot, but I sold my bull for a pretty low price because I wasn't sure if he was top notch. He's going to do great for his new owners, but I took care of my uneasiness of pricing bulls in the future by making sure I cut the ones that wouldn't make the cut for next year. (No pun intended.) However, in some reading material, I have learned that a bull is worth roughly the value of 5 cows. At our prices, a bull is worth around $3000, depending on bred or killer cows, which should get you a pretty nice bull. Even an average bull is worth something because a live calf that gets put on the truck is worth far more than one that never makes it into the world. So, when you go buy bulls, do you look for the one that costs the least and will get the job done, or do you figure he's worth more than just 5 cows and really pay attention to paying good money for a good bull? It seems people try to spend as little as possible on bulls, and yet will only look at ones that have a pretty good price tag. As a young seedstock breeder, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts.
 
ColemanCreekCattle":303nbwt8 said:
As a small seedstock producer, the only way you can compete with the big producers is to use AI, exclusively. You will not ever compete with any seedstock producer (large or small) using subpar natural service sires.
1 three yr old bull can serve 30 cows say you spend $3000 on that bull + feed and care for a year
AI 30 cows for Semen $20; Cidr $10; AI tech $20 per cow and even if you have to breed them 2 times to catch that cost = $3000, but you will be having calves from the best bulls anywhere vs the natural herdsire you found.



blackcowz":303nbwt8 said:
After going through the fun process of selling my first bull, I got the full load of what it takes to get a bull ready for sale, especially if he crosses state lines. I learned a lot, but I sold my bull for a pretty low price because I wasn't sure if he was top notch. He's going to do great for his new owners, but I took care of my uneasiness of pricing bulls in the future by making sure I cut the ones that wouldn't make the cut for next year. (No pun intended.) However, in some reading material, I have learned that a bull is worth roughly the value of 5 cows. At our prices, a bull is worth around $3000, depending on bred or killer cows, which should get you a pretty nice bull. Even an average bull is worth something because a live calf that gets put on the truck is worth far more than one that never makes it into the world. So, when you go buy bulls, do you look for the one that costs the least and will get the job done, or do you figure he's worth more than just 5 cows and really pay attention to paying good money for a good bull? It seems people try to spend as little as possible on bulls, and yet will only look at ones that have a pretty good price tag. As a young seedstock breeder, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

IMO this is what you do not want to do.
 

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