what would you do

[EAT BEEF]

I think you should keep the heifer and buy the bull if you have the funds to do so.Also while I think it would be a good idea to get something set up so you can A.I. or put eggs in,you may end up with a more useful and consistant herd of cows if you only use a couple bulls to breed up you base.I just don't fell like you can have a very good herd of cows as a whole if you just run around trying to fix every cows problems.JMHO

 

[bigbull338]

im not rushing my descision as to what todo.when i start looking at options.i look at what will benafit me an my breeding program.i know heifers are the best part of their mommas.when i sell heifers i turn around an buy pairs or bred cows.so my herd is still growing.i want my base herd tobe 15 or 20 top cows.

 

[Frankie]

i talked to a beefmaster breeder i do bussiness with last nite.an told him that id like to find me a top end polled bull to go on the cows.an also told him that i had a nice black reg heifer.he goes ill be weaning some real good bull calves in dec.an he goes ill trade even bull for your black heifer calf.should i consider the trade.

I wouldn't make that trade, especially for a just weaned bull calf. It's a long way from weaning to herd sire. Even with the best genetics, the bull calf could turn out to be a dud. There are lots of good bulls ready to go to work available. While there are also good heifers around, I'd rather keep one that I knew something about her dam, her management, disposition, etc.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i talked to a beefmaster breeder i do bussiness with last nite.an told him that id like to find me a top end polled bull to go on the cows.an also told him that i had a nice black reg heifer.he goes ill be weaning some real good bull calves in dec.an he goes ill trade even bull for your black heifer calf.should i consider the trade.

I wouldn't make that trade, especially for a just weaned bull calf. It's a long way from weaning to herd sire. Even with the best genetics, the bull calf could turn out to be a dud. There are lots of good bulls ready to go to work available. While there are also good heifers around, I'd rather keep one that I knew something about her dam, her management, disposition, etc.

exactly

 

[msscamp]

i talked to a beefmaster breeder i do bussiness with last nite.an told him that id like to find me a top end polled bull to go on the cows.an also told him that i had a nice black reg heifer.he goes ill be weaning some real good bull calves in dec.an he goes ill trade even bull for your black heifer calf.should i consider the trade.

Is she just 'nice', or is she 'really nice'? If she is 'really nice', I don't believe I would even consider the trade. Your possibilities are much more limited with the bull than they are with the heifer. If you like his bulls, then buy one - but I believe I would keep the heifer.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

It don't take all that much to AI. Just a decent corral with a chute a pap. cage is nice. Find you a AI tech. Biggest thing is having your cows where they are easy to get penned when you need to.

 

[bigbull338]

well she is that nice of a heifer calf.an i was planning on keeping all the heifer calves this year.an breeding them back to my herd bull.an building my herd with them.i sold him some weaned heifers last year.an he knows id sell them.then turn around an send him to a sale to buy some bred cows or pairs.ill just wait an look at his bull calves.i dont mind raising a bull.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

IMO it is easier to find a nice heifer/cow than a nice bull.

 

[msscamp]

IMO it is easier to find a nice heifer/cow than a nice bull.

That would depend on your definition of 'nice'. There is nice, and then there is NICE! ;-)

 

[ALACOWMAN]

IMO it is easier to find a nice heifer/cow than a nice bull.

That would depend on your definition of 'nice'. There is nice, and then there is NICE! ;-)

especially if you are a seedstock producer....... a nice cow or bull will fit my needs as a commercial cattlemen

 

[bigbull338]

as im trying to build a seedstock herd.i must buy the very best cows i can.an build my herd an breeding program on them.an when it comes to bulls i must get the best bull i can get.when i go to a sale with buying on my mind.i try to pick the best cows that will suit my needs.an then set what im willing to pay for those cows.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

as im trying to build a seedstock herd.i must buy the very best cows i can.an build my herd an breeding program on them.an when it comes to bulls i must get the best bull i can get.when i go to a sale with buying on my mind.i try to pick the best cows that will suit my needs.an then set what im willing to pay for those cows.

that always my problem i pick the best ones out that suit me, only too be out bidded by someone wearing those "deep pocket" jeans ;-)

 

[bigbull338]

if they outbid me so be it.i picked a 3 in 1 out at a sale last year.an i didnt go to the sale.but in my mind i set the price on them at $2000.an i foundout they sold for $1700.needless to say i was upset.i shouldve sent a bid on that pair.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

regardless of your definition of "nice". I still think exceptional females are easier to find than exceptional bulls.

 

[bigbull338]

i can find top end bulls an cows if i want to really open up my checkbook.an pay high prices for the best bulls an cows.i really dont want to give more than $2500 for cows an $3000 for bulls.but i may have todo that 1 day.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

i can find top end bulls an cows if i want to really open up my checkbook.an pay high prices for the best bulls an cows.i really dont want to give more than $2500 for cows an $3000 for bulls.but i may have todo that 1 day.

bigbull338-

I agree with your first sentence in the above post. That said, I feel that a lot is left UNsaid in the intepretation of "top end bulls and cows", and "..high prices", and "best bulls and cows". Generally speaking, those terms are essentially correct. But just exactly what does a breeder really imply or signify by the use of these phrases? "Top end", - "nice", - "REALLY nice", - "Good", - "REALLY good" - - all of these terms can have dissimilar or contrasting interpretations, or significance, to different people, dependng upon their specific Genetic and Phenotypic requirements. "Semantics" makes for difficult understanding between people - even people of the same business interests and desires. In order for there to be an unquestionable understanding in defining and using terms of an Industry, we should all be on the "same page", so to speak.

The "Tower of Babel" refuted that scenario!

bb338- I am really interested in what criteria you employ in the establishment of $2500 for cows, and $3000 for bulls. Those seem like reasonable "Benchmarks" to me for a particular collection of requirements which may be desirable for some producers, and, then again, perhaps they are NOT incisive enough to fulfill the specific demands which are necessary for improving the Genetics of a particular herd.

I would appreciate your explaining in more detail your selection protocols for improving the genetic quality of your beef herd, and the "dollar" values placed on those traits, characteristics and functions. I think that is a difficult procedure to manage in a pragmatic manner!

DOC HARRIS

 

[bigbull338]

i can find top end bulls an cows if i want to really open up my checkbook.an pay high prices for the best bulls an cows.i really dont want to give more than $2500 for cows an $3000 for bulls.but i may have todo that 1 day.

bigbull338-

I agree with your first sentence in the above post. That said, I feel that a lot is left UNsaid in the intepretation of "top end bulls and cows", and "..high prices", and "best bulls and cows". Generally speaking, those terms are essentially correct. But just exactly what does a breeder really imply or signify by the use of these phrases? "Top end", - "nice", - "REALLY nice", - "Good", - "REALLY good" - - all of these terms can have dissimilar or contrasting interpretations, or significance, to different people, dependng upon their specific Genetic and Phenotypic requirements. "Semantics" makes for difficult understanding between people - even people of the same business interests and desires. In order for there to be an unquestionable understanding in defining and using terms of an Industry, we should all be on the "same page", so to speak.

The "Tower of Babel" refuted that scenario!

bb338- I am really interested in what criteria you employ in the establishment of $2500 for cows, and $3000 for bulls. Those seem like reasonable "Benchmarks" to me for a particular collection of requirements which may be desirable for some producers, and, then again, perhaps they are NOT incisive enough to fulfill the specific demands which are necessary for improving the Genetics of a particular herd.

I would appreciate your explaining in more detail your selection protocols for improving the genetic quality of your beef herd, and the "dollar" values placed on those traits, characteristics and functions. I think that is a difficult procedure to manage in a pragmatic manner!

DOC HARRIS

doc id like to thank you for the questions you asked me.an id like to say 1st that im not that good at wording an saying things.but i try to write an word them so they make sense.ok the setting of the prices.i feel like you can buy top comm cows for $1500.an they will go great in a comm herd.im not putting a comm herd down.now heres the thing i look at the cows bloodlines.an see if i want those in my breeding program.then i look at the cow.an see if she will fitt into my breeding program.then i set the price ill give for her.im not a big named breeder.so i dont have super deep pockets to run with the big breeders.the future bulls i buy will have to have the bloodlines i want to infuse in my herd.an they will have the herd bull look to go on reg cows.if they dont then ill pass them by an keep looking.if they arnt gentle an easy to handle they will get passed by.an they have to pass those traits on to their calves.im NOT a breeder that regs every bull calf.i do not beleive in wasting my time effort or money on cull bulls.i will sell them as feeder calves.no need in raising junk bulls.i hope my price fitts the comm breeder.1 last thing i wont bother reging a bull thats junk.hope ive answered your qs.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

bb338-

You have answered my questions just fine! Your methods of selection seem to fit your needs very well. Very concise. Very organized. Nothing too complicated or confusing.

In every business, or in every part of just living a life, activities are determined by what is called a "DECISION TREE". There are ALWAYS two decisions one must make in their day to day activities; at the "decision-making" fork in the road, you take the left fork - or - the right fork. Then, you have two decisions to make; you either continue on that road, or - you don't. If you continue, you have two decisions to make; you decide how FAR you will go, or you stay where you are. If you stay where you are, you are through with THOSE decisions. If you decide how FAR you will go, you have two decisions to make; what you will DO when you get to where you are going, or whether you will do nothing. If you decide to do nothing, you are through with THOSE decisions. If you decide to do something, you have two decisions to make; You either do THIS, or you do THAT. If you decide to do THIS, you have two decisions . . . . .and it continues until you have settled the problem you began with in the first place.

The "DECISION TREE" method of organizing your life breaks your planning down into small parts, so that you can understand the consequences more clearly. Sometimes the complications of everything involved in big decisions confuse your thinking to the point that you say . . . "Forget the whole thing!", . . . and you miss out on some important factors that might have been of great benefit to your life. But by breaking everything down into smaller parts, the decisions are more easily determined.

bb338, you seem to have solved that method very well.

DOC HARRIS

 

[bigbull338]

i learned along time ago that cows arnt perfect.an theres no such thing as a perfect cow.you pick the best bull to breed the cows to.an some cows will just bomb out.thats part of cattle.i did not take entering the reg beefmasters lightly.so i tryed to really plan an think things through.because this will be the last herd that i build.im constantly thinking an planning things out down the road.an i know i must live with the choices i make.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Trade her, there are more good heifers at your place.