What think ye of Square Meater X Jersey - dual-purpose

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djinwa

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I'm trying to come up with the ideal dual-purpose cow for small acreages. Or maybe you can all use this type of cow to make money, as you can produce beef with smaller cows, while stealing some milk - maybe sell it for $14 a gallon like someone I know.

Anyway, I need:

small size
docile - absolutely
good udder/teats for milking by hand
not black hide
polled calves
1+ gallon milk daily beyond calf's needs
good meat producer when bred to beef bull
easy calver (Jersey known for calving ease?)

I've come pretty close to ideal with my lowline/jersey cow, except she is black, and could have better teats. She's only 46 inches tall (frame 2) - I'm going to try calving ease standard size bulls on her (frame 4)- she had a 60 pounder really easy.

I need to improve on color, but nearly all lowlines are black. I was wondering about the square meaters. Are they smaller than murrey greys, or just shorter legs? Any other small breed without horns and with color?
 

gallowaygirl

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As always, I'll throw a comment in here for the Galloways. They are considered a moderate-framed animal, are extremely polled, and you can choose from either solid colored reds & duns, or whites (what I raise) or the belteds. They will also add a little more hair to the animals that you have already developed. The hair won't be thick enough that it will affect transition into heat and humidity though, as the lowline/jersey will shorten and thin it out. The cows and bulls are extremely docile (I just halter broke a 10yr cow 3 weeks ago and she was shown Thursday night)

I am unsure what kind of teats are acceptable to hand-milkers, but there are quite a few cows that milk enough to feed a calf and produce daily for you.
They are excellent beef producers and are also EXTREMELY easy calvers, most heifers calve out by themselves and you find momma and calf a day later, both doing fine.
 

Loch Valley Fold

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FarmPhotos16.jpg

This is a picture of a Murray Grey x Jersey, naturally polled, nice sized teats for hand milking, a very easy milker, plenty of milk to rear a calf + supply you with enough milk for the whole family, stays as fat & shiney all year round. This should be what you could expect from a SM x Jersey mating.
Dexters are I think, an under rated breed. You can get blacks, reds, duns horn or polled your choice & these will milk & raise a calf for you. My cousin has a 1st calved heifer (angus x jersey) that has a Dexter calf at foot & it was born small, much the size of a Jersey calf & it is fat & sassy & looks really good.
 

Jovid

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djinwa":2d3dm3he said:
I'm trying to come up with the ideal dual-purpose cow for small acreages. Or maybe you can all use this type of cow to make money, as you can produce beef with smaller cows, while stealing some milk - maybe sell it for $14 a gallon like someone I know.

Anyway, I need:

small size
docile - absolutely
good udder/teats for milking by hand
not black hide
polled calves
1+ gallon milk daily beyond calf's needs
good meat producer when bred to beef bull
easy calver (Jersey known for calving ease?)

I've come pretty close to ideal with my lowline/jersey cow, except she is black, and could have better teats. She's only 46 inches tall (frame 2) - I'm going to try calving ease standard size bulls on her (frame 4)- she had a 60 pounder really easy.

I need to improve on color, but nearly all lowlines are black. I was wondering about the square meaters. Are they smaller than murrey greys, or just shorter legs? Any other small breed without horns and with color?

Sounds like you are looking for a small framed Red Poll to me.
 

ANAZAZI

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Piedmontese on jersey has it all; low frame, non black, good milk (bred as dual purpose until late seventies), good muscle, good disposition, easy calver.
Need dehorning of course, but beats red poll in muscle. And a f1 cross with jersey would require a homo polled bull anyway!
The SQ is likely to put black on the calf just like the murray grey.
 
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djinwa

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Well, you’ve all given me things to think about and research. Not sure what kind of frames you’re talking about and whether size would be reduced much. Though I’ve recently been considering a larger cow, as more people are interested in milk – now selling 3 gallons a week for $6 per gallon. That’s nearly $900 a year in milk, plus we get milk, plus a calf. She’s at least covering her feed costs. Just don’t ask me about my labor.

Anyway, I like the Murray Grey/Jersey, but didn’t think they’d be that dark. Is that from a dark Jersey, or can Murray Greys be dark? And where’s her udder? Dried up?

I’ll have to look up Red Polls and Galloways. Not sure I want more hair, as I have to clip my cow now, but otherwise sounds good.

I was admiring Piedmontese at the fair. But the horns are an issue. True you can cancel them with a homo polled bull, but I’d like to start with a cow with at least one polled gene. Perhaps I just have bad luck. I got semen from a bull a few years ago, a red Lowline (he said red came from a Red Angus way back). Anyway, I assumed I wouldn’t have to deal with horns. Anyway, here comes a heifer calf with horn buds. Called the breeder who tried blaming it all on my cow, so I had to educate him on genetics of horns. He’d only used his bull on angus so hadn’t seen any horns. He said here was some Chianina way back in the bull’s lineage the horns might have come from. (Chianina + Lowline???)

I’m also leary of the disposition thing, as that red bull has given me some crazies. Wish everyone had a scoring system for that and udders.

Had a Dexter – wasn’t impressed, but maybe there are better ones. I just don’t see as much meat on them as a Lowline. And mine didn’t have much milk. Why cross scrawny with a Jersey?
 

gallowaygirl

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Frame-wise I think Galloways are a 3 or a 4. The hair really isn't a dis-advantage, they adapt to their environments very well. I will email you pictures of our two heavier milkers so you can see the udders.
 

lakeportfarms

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We have several Dexters. We've milked them all and average about 2-3 gallons/day. More milk than you likely would ever need. With calves on them we still get nearly 1 gallon/day . I think your experience with your Dexters was bad, because we love them as do many people that have seen the ones we have had for sale. They are in high demand and calves sell for a lot of money, marketed well, to families looking for a good dual purpose breed.

We also have crossed our short leg Dexter bull with Highlands. The calves of that cross are exceptional. Small frame but good milking and great beef. The only drawback are the horns (to some people anyway). We've sold all 5 out of this years crop for $500 and up to $750, at 2-3 months old, to families that want a cow for milking but also want low maintenance. We had a mature Highland cross that produces 4 gallons/day, on pasture only, and she keeps her condition well on that. She's very easy to milk. And I'll post when I get on my other computer where the photos reside, a picture of one of the bull calves out of that cross that will answer any questions about suitability for meat production.

Our Jersey required tremendous inputs to keep her in condition, and produced way too much milk for a normal family to use. We've considered going with our dun Dexter bull and the Jersey to see what they could produce. If she throws a short leg Dexter/Jersey heifer it would seem to be an ideal cross and bring a premium price sold as a family milk cow, but she still could require more input to keep condition and produce more milk than needed for most people. It is not legal to sell non-pasteurized milk in our state, so we are limited to our own use.
 

Loch Valley Fold

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"Why cross scrawny with a Jersey?

My thoughts exactly.[/quote]

Am I understanding correctly - you want a Dual purpose small framed animal that has enough milk to raise a calf & have enough milk left over to supply a family? I gave you my sugestions & a Dexter would help reduce size - & produce milk just research which bloodlines are noted for higher milk production same goes for any breed, some families will be noted for higher milk production just make sure you look into whatever beef breed otherwise you could end up with a dual purpose dud.
The Dexter isn't scrawny, but a true miniature cattle with no larger version. The ones I have seen, while small are not what I would call scrawny or skinny, like everything else they need proper care to achieve results - & no I don't own Dexters, highands & Lowlines yes.
Selling milk here in Australia is illegal with very heavy fines & jail time if caught
 

FarmGirl10

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djinwa":il6a0tmf said:
Anyway, I like the Murray Grey/Jersey, but didn’t think they’d be that dark. Is that from a dark Jersey, or can Murray Greys be dark?
Most Murray Grey's are homozygous black, they are lightened to silver/grey/charcoal because of diluter genes. So that is why the cross would result in dark calves. Keren could probably give you more detail on that.
 

~Tomboy~

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Djinwa,

I think you probably got you hands on a bad Dexter, might be worth you while to give them another try. I have sold bull calves this year that were going to be crossed with Jerseys, less milk more beef. Of coarse I'm partial to Dexters, I breed only polled reds. http://www.legendrockranch.com
Tarentaise would be a good cross for you also, red hide and polled. There are some folks in Oklahoma with a beautiful herd. I believe there last name is Ackerman. Good Luck

Barb
 

MO_cows

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I thought the OP was outside the U.S., but yes Tarentaise would probably fill their "wish list", if there are any available there. www.americantarentaise.org

I think the breeder Tomboy was thinking of was Ankenman Ranch. They do have some good cattle. At least they used to, haven't seen any of their cattle lately as they don't participate with the assn. anymore.
 
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djinwa

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Regarding Dexters, I don't need some with more milk if I'm going to cross with Jersey - the Jersey is for the milk - I need a serious beef animal to cross. I don't want pure Dexter - I want somethng bigger. Now if someone can show me a red, polled Dexter that looks like this bull, that will produce a steer like this red one I just put in the freezer, I'd consider him for crossing with Jersey.

Lowline bull, Machine:
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My mostly lowline steer at 10 months:
IMG_0024-1.jpg
 

~Tomboy~

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Your right djinwa can't say as I've ever seen any Dexters with butts like the top picture you posted of the Lowline, but than again Dexters are dual purpose, I don't think you can really say that about Lowines, I consider them a small beef breed. I guess if the lowlines had great udders and milk production you wouldn't be looking for something to cross a Jersey with. Sometimes it hard to have the best of both worlds. You try breeding that Lowline to a jersey and you might be looking at some calving problems, I know of several breeders that do that cross but are very careful with bull selection. Most do a Dexter/Jersey cross.
A second option for you to look at might be a Devon.
 
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djinwa

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~Tomboy~":1b0en9kl said:
Your right djinwa can't say as I've ever seen any Dexters with butts like the top picture you posted of the Lowline, but than again Dexters are dual purpose, I don't think you can really say that about Lowines, I consider them a small beef breed. I guess if the lowlines had great udders and milk production you wouldn't be looking for something to cross a Jersey with. Sometimes it hard to have the best of both worlds. You try breeding that Lowline to a jersey and you might be looking at some calving problems, I know of several breeders that do that cross but are very careful with bull selection. Most do a Dexter/Jersey cross.
A second option for you to look at might be a Devon.

Somehow I can't seem to get my concept across. Guess I shouldn't even have mentioned my plan. My main question was how big square meaters are, or if there is another very small beef breed like lowlines, that aren't black.

Tomboy, I know that lowlines are not dual purpose. I know that Dexters are considered dual purpose. So if you want a dual purpose cow that is not a dexter, why breed a dexter dual purpose to a jersey dairy cow? You would be taking away most of the beef production. I also would not breed a lowline cow to jersey, I would breed a jersey cow/heifer to a lowline bull, or some other breed if I liked them better.
 

ANAZAZI

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djinwa":26k5jg8s said:
Somehow I can't seem to get my concept across. Guess I shouldn't even have mentioned my plan. My main question was how big square meaters are, or if there is another very small beef breed like lowlines, that aren't black.
.

Piedmontese on jersey gives you jersey colours. And milk.
The size of a cow is height 130cms 52inches frame score 5
 

ArmyDoc

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~Tomboy~":3o74wcyz said:
... My main question was how big square meaters are, or if there is another very small beef breed like lowlines, that aren't black.

There are red lowline bulls out there - take a look at: http://www.lazyglowline.com/
Pricey, but they have red lowline semen available if that's what you want.

Also, if all you want is non-black small frame cattle, there are miniature hereford - try: http://www.mhbaonline.org/
 

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