What Sells Heifers in Kentucky

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Ebenezer said:
I tried to buy a bull in KY some years back at an auction. I did not have the advantage of state money so the KY guys bid without a personal limit. So it helps the KY folks but it disadvantages the out of state folks.

This is exactly right. I quit applying for CAIP money several rounds ago (not because I see it as welfare). I was turned down a couple of times in a row, and I raised tobacco, from birth til the buyout. They give it to people, that have never handled a stick in their life, for frivolous things. You go to sale, and spend your hard earned dollar, to be out bid by some gunsel with CAIP money and no real knowledge of how a farm actually works. It's not tax dollars, but it's wasted.
 
Bright Raven said:
TennesseeTuxedo said:
Bright Raven said:
In Kentucky, each participant has to fill out a questionnaire. Those who were former tobacco farmers including the children of tobacco farmers who were raised on a tobacco farm are scored higher. Thus, the tobacco connection still plays a major role in whether or not you are approved for the funding.

I found it to be an arduous and time consuming process. Much too intrusive for my taste.

Laughing. Maybe your county has a different questionnaire but arduous is not even close to describing the process. Writing your name and address and checking about 6 boxes is all that it takes.

They wanted my tax returns. Saw something about farming being a primary source of income which it isn't.
 
TennesseeTuxedo said:
Bright Raven said:
TennesseeTuxedo said:
I found it to be an arduous and time consuming process. Much too intrusive for my taste.

Laughing. Maybe your county has a different questionnaire but arduous is not even close to describing the process. Writing your name and address and checking about 6 boxes is all that it takes.

They wanted my tax returns. Saw something about farming being a primary source of income which it isn't.
Well. That is different. Each county composes their own questionnaire.
 
I also chose not to participate in ours after seeing how much income info they wanted. In my opinion it's none of their business how much I make off the farm.

Also work with a guy who was trying to get some funds for fencing and land improvements. After going through the whole process he was denied and later hit with double the property taxes. They claimed they reappraised his farm while looking checking things out for the fence and land improvements.
 
kentuckyguy said:
I also chose not to participate in ours after seeing how much income info they wanted. In my opinion it's none of their business how much I make off the farm.

Also work with a guy who was trying to get some funds for fencing and land improvements. After going through the whole process he was denied and later hit with double the property taxes. They claimed they reappraised his farm while looking checking things out for the fence and land improvements.

You are correct. The infrastructure improvements raises your property value and raises your County property taxes. They give it to you in one hand and take it away from the other.
BTW: the amount you claim under CAIP has to be reported as income on Schedule F. There is a line for farm income through government subsidies, etc.
 
Dogs and Cows said:
What is with this unhealthy infatuation with cattle in Kentucky? LOL

Kentucky has a lot of cattle, they have the largest inventory of any state east of the Mississippi, and they have nearly the worst reputation for quality. Go figure!

As for what sells heifers in Kentucky? Of course, my comments will inflame many in the state, but I would be VERY cautious buying heifers in Kentucky. Most producers have a very vague idea of pedigree, epds, and maternal traits.

We have bought a few heifers over the years from Stone Gate, which I've said before has a very good maternal program with an above average amount of Pathfinder dams in their herd, but with that said, they cannot supply the entire state with replacement heifers. Boyd's has nice heifers if you have deep pockets, and you get what you pay for with them. I'm not as familiar with producers in the western part of the state, which I'm sure there are some reputable breeders down there.

My best advice would be to look VERY closely at the pedigree and epds if possible, look at the dams, and their feet, do they have any cows past 8-10 years old working in the herd, and in good condition, what do you know about the sire?. Foot quality is NOT on the top of the list of many producers, and they are light years away from breeding for better foot quality here in my opinion.

Cheap heifers are like buying cheap shoes or cheap tires, they wear out quickly. If that's your goal, great, stick to it, if not, your gals are what dictate your future in the cattle business, choose wisely.

As a reference point, here is a heifer we have bred to Bubs Southern Charm. She is a Eurotia heifer and direct, DNA proven daughter of Hoover Dam. There are multiple Pathfinders in her pedigree. She is not for sale, but if she were, it would take $5k have her, open at that. Our SAV President and Raindance daughters will be in the $8-15K range. SAV Elation daughters, probably not for sale.

 
************* said:
Dogs and Cows said:
What is with this unhealthy infatuation with cattle in Kentucky? LOL

Kentucky has a lot of cattle, they have the largest inventory of any state east of the Mississippi, and they have nearly the worst reputation for quality. Go figure!

As for what sells heifers in Kentucky? Of course, my comments will inflame many in the state, but I would be VERY cautious buying heifers in Kentucky. Most producers have a very vague idea of pedigree, epds, and maternal traits.

We have bought a few heifers over the years from Stone Gate, which I've said before has a very good maternal program with an above average amount of Pathfinder dams in their herd, but with that said, they cannot supply the entire state with replacement heifers. Boyd's has nice heifers if you have deep pockets, and you get what you pay for with them. I'm not as familiar with producers in the western part of the state, which I'm sure there are some reputable breeders down there.

My best advice would be to look VERY closely at the pedigree and epds if possible, look at the dams, and their feet, do they have any cows past 8-10 years old working in the herd, and in good condition, what do you know about the sire?. Foot quality is NOT on the top of the list of many producers, and they are light years away from breeding for better foot quality here in my opinion.

Cheap heifers are like buying cheap shoes or cheap tires, they wear out quickly. If that's your goal, great, stick to it, if not, your gals are what dictate your future in the cattle business, choose wisely.

As a reference point, here is a heifer we have bred to Bubs Southern Charm. She is a Eurotia heifer and direct, DNA proven daughter of Hoover Dam. There are multiple Pathfinders in her pedigree. She is not for sale, but if she were, it would take $5k have her, open at that. Our SAV President and Raindance daughters will be in the $8-15K range. SAV Elation daughters, probably not for sale.


I am going to offer another view regarding feet and this is specific to Simmental breeders. I have visited a number of the high profile Simmental Breeders in Kentucky, in fact, I have taken Fire Sweep for visits to about a dozen. They all pay close attention to feet.
 
Hook2.0 said:
Sounds like someone in neighboring states would do well to sell good heifers in Kentucky, seeing the buyers are spending other people's money for the most part

We're heading that way Hook, free delivery with the purchase of 2 or more animals. Vincent listed a bull up there for sale Wednesday and he sold last night.
 
kentuckyguy said:
I also chose not to participate in ours after seeing how much income info they wanted. In my opinion it's none of their business how much I make off the farm.

Also work with a guy who was trying to get some funds for fencing and land improvements. After going through the whole process he was denied and later hit with double the property taxes. They claimed they reappraised his farm while looking checking things out for the fence and land improvements.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with all you said above. Here in my county, people LOVE these programs, I've heard this comment before "yeah, go get some funds for waterers and fence, it's free money!", and from what I can tell, there also is some favoritism in who actually gets the funds. It's cliquish, almost like a private club.

We have never used these "improvement" funds, because I figured that what you said above is a common scenario. That, and it requires your gate to be unlocked and free access to guys in state trucks driving around your property. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that once you accept government funds, that you have made a deal with the devil in some sense of the phrase.

I've known a couple of people as well, one a producer here with over 1000 head of cattle, that was not too pleased after taking the funds for a hoop barn, and wished they had never made the move.
 
Bright Raven said:
************* said:
Dogs and Cows said:
What is with this unhealthy infatuation with cattle in Kentucky? LOL

I am going to offer another view regarding feet and this is specific to Simmental breeders. I have visited a number of the high profile Simmental Breeders in Kentucky, in fact, I have taken Fire Sweep for visits to about a dozen. They all pay close attention to feet.

As for Angus, screw claw is a serious issue. Sires like Hoover Dam, and SAV President go a long ways towards fixing that issue.
 
I think some people may be confusing the CAIP program with the state cost share programs. They are two entirely different things. With the state cost share programs you do have to have your project inspected...be it a waterer installed or fencing project etc.
With the CAIP funds nothing is inspected as long as you meet the criteria for buying it. So, if you want to buy a New ritchie waterer...you just buy the waterer and put it in yourself if you want to. If you want to buy a load of cattle panels and gates and posts and store them in the barn forever you can. Our county rarely goes too much over $1000 for cost share reimbursement. Also, several years ago, they started splitting the money with everyone that signs up. BTW I don't see it as welfare. THis is money that was supposed to buyout the tobacco bases the tobacco farmers owned. So, after they were able to cut the bases down year after year.....finally a deal was made to pay the farmers for their bases and do away with the price support program. Then the states wanted to get their hands on some of this money......so the farmers only got half of the money. This was called phase 2 money and the state the other half which was called phase 1 money.
So the CAIP programs are paid out of the phase 1 money the state got..........so no, I don't blink at all when it comes to signing up for it.
 
Banjo said:
I think some people may be confusing the CAIP program with the state cost share programs. They are two entirely different things. With the state cost share programs you do have to have your project inspected...be it a waterer installed or fencing project etc.
With the CAIP funds nothing is inspected as long as you meet the criteria for buying it. So, if you want to buy a New ritchie waterer...you just buy the waterer and put it in yourself if you want to. If you want to buy a load of cattle panels and gates and posts and store them in the barn forever you can. Our county rarely goes too much over $1000 for cost share reimbursement. Also, several years ago, they started splitting the money with everyone that signs up. BTW I don't see it as welfare. THis is money that was supposed to buyout the tobacco bases the tobacco farmers owned. So, after they were able to cut the bases down year after year.....finally a deal was made to pay the farmers for their bases and do away with the price support program. Then the states wanted to get their hands on some of this money......so the farmers only got half of the money. This was called phase 2 money and the state the other half which was called phase 1 money.
So the CAIP programs are paid out of the phase 1 money the state got..........so no, I don't blink at all when it comes to signing up for it.

Not exactly few states agreed to stop suing big tobacco over the health problems it caused people. If big tobacco payed x amount over so many years. In return they (state) do not let new outside start up tobacco companies to manufacturer finished tobacco products in the state. Ky decided to give a % back to the farmer. Each county has a ag development committee , I am on my county's. People come in begging for money all kinds of ag projects to help county. We 98% of the time give it all to farmers for cost share. Do fund a 4-h country ham project everyyear, and built a cow barn at fair grounds.
State also has committee and funds several projects expo centers extra. My county has a application with weighted questions. Such as how many times you have been approved, and yes what % of your income comes from ag, but 3 other pages also. Each county does not get the same is based on how much tobacco was in county in 04. My county gets a lot Barren the most, Ballard nothing i think. Most states put in general fund to try balance budget. Ky did it right. Call it welfare but phillp morris and friends are signing the checks.
 
This year for Metcalfe County spend 4000 get back 3000. Picture and receipt and paper work on cows. No one is coming to your farm going through your stuff and upping your taxes. You do get a 1099
 
littletom said:
This year for Metcalfe County spend 4000 get back 3000. Picture and receipt and paper work on cows. No one is coming to your farm going through your stuff and upping your taxes. You do get a 1099

Tom. The CAIP program does not get involved in property tax assessment or provide any information on property valuation to the tax assessors office. But farm improvements such as fencing, hay cover buildings, loafing sheds for cattle, cattle feed barns, handling facilities, etc that increase property value can lead to higher property taxes. Yes. I get a 1099.
 
T & B farms said:
You all are saying in Kentucky there are programs that pay for 3/4 of your heifer purchases???? Maybe I'm reading this wrong.

In our county, to this point it has been 1/2 up to a certain amount usually $3000. In other words you would be receiving back 1500$ if you spent $3000. in our county as well if you were qualified for it this year you are ineligible for it next year.
 
T & B farms said:
You all are saying in Kentucky there are programs that pay for 3/4 of your heifer purchases???? Maybe I'm reading this wrong.

Every county sets it's own criteria for awarding the money. In the county I reside in, 75 % of the cost of a heifer is reimbursed up to an amount not to exceed $3500.00.
 
Our county is 50%, up to 8k I believe.....

So spend 8k, they reim 4k of qualifying farm upgrades and or animals
 
Wisconsin had 3.5 million head of cattle while Kentucky had 2.16 million.
Both are east of the Mississippi River.

Reference:
https://beef2live.com/story-ranking-states-cattle-189-108182
 
Hunter said:
Wisconsin had 3.5 million head of cattle while Kentucky had 2.16 million.
Both are east of the Mississippi River.

Reference:
https://beef2live.com/story-ranking-states-cattle-189-108182

Could be a distinction between beef and dairy cattle. From what I have always understood Wisconsin has been the largest dairy producing state until recently surpassed by California. Ky used to have several dairies throughout the state, not many right in my area though. A lot of those are not milking now, have switched to crops and or beef cattle. I'm sure we never had the numbers of dairy cattle that Wisconsin has.
 

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