what kind of bull to buy

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horntoad

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i currently have 10 purebred angus cows and 20 angus based commercial cows. i need to replace my registered angus bull and would like to start getting the benefits of crossing. i would like to stay black because that brings a premium in this area, i am looking for better weaning weights. i have considered chiangus, simi or simiangus, and hereford. any suggestions on which might produce the best results.
thanks[/b]
 
horntoad":re0gm6e7 said:
i currently have 10 purebred angus cows and 20 angus based commercial cows. i need to replace my registered angus bull and would like to start getting the benefits of crossing. i would like to stay black because that brings a premium in this area, i am looking for better weaning weights. i have considered chiangus, simi or simiangus, and hereford. any suggestions on which might produce the best results.
thanks[/b]

If you're looking to maximize heterosis I would stay away from Chiangus, Balancer, Lim-Flex or Simangus since you already have a lot of Angus in your herd. Hereford would be good, but you might get some red calves. If I were in your shoes I would try a homozygous black Gelbvieh, Simmie, or Limousin.
 
VanC":1upvn46j said:
horntoad":1upvn46j said:
i currently have 10 purebred angus cows and 20 angus based commercial cows. i need to replace my registered angus bull and would like to start getting the benefits of crossing. i would like to stay black because that brings a premium in this area, i am looking for better weaning weights. i have considered chiangus, simi or simiangus, and hereford. any suggestions on which might produce the best results.
thanks[/b]

If you're looking to maximize heterosis I would stay away from Chiangus, Balancer, Lim-Flex or Simangus since you already have a lot of Angus in your herd. Hereford would be good, but you might get some red calves. If I were in your shoes I would try a homozygous black Gelbvieh, Simmie, or Limousin.

Ditto
 
Angus is supposed to be the best british breed in maternal & carcass qualities, and Simmental is the best continental breed. They make a natural choice & is one of the most popular crosses. There is a new market grid 70 / 70 Marbling & Muscling. ASA & JBS Swift have partnered up and getting premiums for Choice YG 2 carcasses - using Simmental X Angus.
 
horntoad":8snv5hil said:
i currently have 10 purebred angus cows and 20 angus based commercial cows. i need to replace my registered angus bull and would like to start getting the benefits of crossing. i would like to stay black because that brings a premium in this area, i am looking for better weaning weights. i have considered chiangus, simi or simiangus, and hereford. any suggestions on which might produce the best results.
thanks[/b]
You do have a variety of acceptable choices, however I would suggest that you seriously consider one of twos options: ONE) carefully examine a few ANGUS bulls with DHD Traveler 6807, or one of his son's (SS Traveler 6807 T510 or one of HIS son's - SS Objective T510 OT26 for example ) and use those improved Angus genetics for Replacement Heifers -OR - if you are determined to benefit from crossbred heterosis sooner, TWO) use a Homozygous Black Gelbvieh bull, and study his Phenotype and EPD's to be profitably compatible with your CURRENT COW HERD'S GENES!

Either way, you are on the right track to a REAL knockout cow herd in the future!

DOC HARRIS
 
sooknortex":25bbs4w0 said:
I have a question for all you guys promoting the homozygous black continentals: How did those breeds become homozygous black? and won't this most certainly effect the amount of heterosis since the breed that made them black will be in the cross?
This is good question, sooknortex, and shows that you are thinking!

The breeds became Homozygous Black by using Homozygous Black Individual Bulls of whatever breed they utilized, probably ANGUS originally. And yes, you are correct - genetically, the heterosis will be affected by virtue of the fact that there will be a higher percentage of one breed present, however, that can be balanced out by future meticulous crosses in subsequent matings. One must determine what factors are important to their breeding program in ensuing generations, and plan their future mating combinations accordingly.

Their are always choices. Nothing is easy!

DOC HARRIS
 
sooknortex":2zswtkww said:
I have a question for all you guys promoting the homozygous black continentals:

I wasn't promoting anything. I was giving suggestions based on what horntoad was asking for: black calves and "getting the benefits of crossing". I read "getting the benefits of crossing" as wanting the most heterosis as possible.

sooknortex":2zswtkww said:
How did those breeds become homozygous black?

By using Angus.

sooknortex":2zswtkww said:
and won't this most certainly effect the amount of heterosis since the breed that made them black will be in the cross?

Sure, but what will give the most heterosis: a black continental thats, say, 5% Angus or even less or a black hybrid that's 50% Angus? I suppose I could have suggested Black Hereford or Welsh Black, but there's not exactly a lot of them out there to choose from. The guy wants black calves. What would you suggest?
 
According to Cornell (they did our EPD's) there was an AVERAGE of 7% Angus genes in the black Simmentals recorded (this included the 1/2 & 3/4 bloods). So, most of the Purebreds are maybe 1-2% - not enough to have an influence on heterosis - depending on the individual animal.
 
A few red calves aren't going to hurt you too much, and it's hard to beat baldies. I'd guess that 8 out of ten should be black with the Hereford bull.
 
I'd go Gelbvieh and since you wrote that the cows are purebred Angus and Angus based a red bull should still give you black calves. I've also seen good red bulls sell cheaper than sorry black bulls.
 
North Texas is good country for having some Brahman influence. A good Beefmaster bull on commercial and registered angus cows will very likely give you black calves. The difference is the thickness and muscling that you'll get in those calves. Additionally, you'll have super replacements. Get a white face or mottle face Beefmaster bull and you can keep or sell high dollar BWF females. There's no doubt in my mind that the approx. 1/4 Brahman blood and milking ability that would be in your replacements would really please you. The steers taken to the market would be 1/4 Brahman could easily top the market at the salebarn. The black hide would surely help too. You don't have to sacrifice an underline that will get your animals docked at the salebarn. Foundation Beefmaster breeders have been selecting for tight sheaths and clean underlines for years now. Whatever you do, I hope you're pleased. I hope you give Beefmasters a try. I know you won't be disappointed.

EC
 
Put a registered brahman on them and get black baldies. They will sell as golden certified. There is a large demand for them. Or use them as replacement heifers and come back with a continental. Knock out at the sale barn.
 
novatech":18lgu0ua said:
Put a registered brahman on them and get black baldies. They will sell as golden certified. There is a large demand for them. Or use them as replacement heifers and come back with a continental. Knock out at the sale barn.

Unless I'm not understanding something, How will he get black baldies from this cross?
 
DOC HARRIS":3dgaqywd said:
sooknortex":3dgaqywd said:
I have a question for all you guys promoting the homozygous black continentals: How did those breeds become homozygous black? and won't this most certainly effect the amount of heterosis since the breed that made them black will be in the cross?
This is good question, sooknortex, and shows that you are thinking!

The breeds became Homozygous Black by using Homozygous Black Individual Bulls of whatever breed they utilized, probably ANGUS originally. And yes, you are correct - genetically, the heterosis will be affected by virtue of the fact that there will be a higher percentage of one breed present, however, that can be balanced out by future meticulous crosses in subsequent matings. One must determine what factors are important to their breeding program in ensuing generations, and plan their future mating combinations accordingly.

Their are always choices. Nothing is easy!

DOC HARRIS
if thats the case they need to put some more homozygosity for black back in the angus. cause i got pure black calve's out of my brangus and black simm bull's and were black at birth but grey's and rats out of my angus and are chocolate at birth.course they will turn black . seems to me the more homozygous their bred for would put more bang of heterosis in the cross... or its been my experiance
 
birdog":29z9dphh said:
novatech":29z9dphh said:
Put a registered brahman on them and get black baldies. They will sell as golden certified. There is a large demand for them. Or use them as replacement heifers and come back with a continental. Knock out at the sale barn.

Unless I'm not understanding something, How will he get black baldies from this cross?
You end up with a black cow with white face. Sometimes solid black, but mostly baldies. Just like with herfords, red baldies or tigerstripes.
 

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