what I've learned so far about cattle business

[Crowderfarms]

So if half of all new businesses fail, then half of them make it. It seems if you put in your time and study/research your butt off and get a very experienced mentor you have a decent chance.

Yes, a 50 per cent decent chance.
Whatever I do, I pretty well know what I know. The part that bothers me is the part that I don't know and I don't know that I don't know it.

Sounds like someone that has been schooled in JMW.

Funny thing is, people figure if an old farmer can make money with cattle, anyone can.

Problem with some that think the "Old Farmer" is making it in the Cattle business, is one has to take into consideration, the "Old Farmer's" land is no doubt paid for if he had to buy it at all, probably was inherited. Like most older Cattlemen I know, they had a public job, and somehow juggled working and Farming at the same time.

I know one Boy that quit his lucrative day job, and makes money off Cattle. He's sharper than a tack, has a Registered herd, and Commercial Herd as well, his Wife brings home a good check every week.He's the only one I know, that has been so sucessful he could rely on Cattle with his share of bringing home the Bacon. One thing to remember though is he leases a lot more land than he owns.

 

[Stepper]

Give the one that says " A lot of people say you can lose $ in cattle but yet alot of people are raising cattle." a whole lot of thought. Because the losing $ part has a whole lot of truth behind it. And i dont care how good of records you keep. They are not going to change the fact that you can lose money on cattle. But the records will help you keep track of just how much you are losing. LOL

And again dont let the fact that there are alot of people rasing cattle make you think the majority of them are making money off of them.

 

[tncattle]

Stepper:

I'm not trying to argue with these questions.

Are you in the cattle business? If so are you losing money? If you're losing money then why are you doing it?

Remember I'm researching so I am asking serious probing questions.

 

[Gate Opener]

So if half of all new businesses fail, then half of them make it. It seems if you put in your time and study/research your butt off and get a very experienced mentor you have a decent chance.

Yes, a 50 per cent decent chance.
Whatever I do, I pretty well know what I know. The part that bothers me is the part that I don't know and I don't know that I don't know it.

Sounds like someone that has been schooled in JMW.

Funny thing is, people figure if an old farmer can make money with cattle, anyone can.

Problem with some that think the "Old Farmer" is making it in the Cattle business, is one has to take into consideration, the "Old Farmer's" land is no doubt paid for if he had to buy it at all, probably was inherited. Like most older Cattlemen I know, they had a public job, and somehow juggled working and Farming at the same time.

I know one Boy that quit his lucrative day job, and makes money off Cattle. He's sharper than a tack, has a Registered herd, and Commercial Herd as well, his Wife brings home a good check every week.He's the only one I know, that has been so sucessful he could rely on Cattle with his share of bringing home the Bacon. One thing to remember though is he leases a lot more land than he owns.

Crowder, have you picked his brain about how he does so well or do you think the leasing is the main reason?

 

[backhoeboogie]

So if half of all new businesses fail, then half of them make it. It seems if you put in your time and study/research your butt off and get a very experienced mentor you have a decent chance.

Yes, a 50 per cent decent chance.
Whatever I do, I pretty well know what I know. The part that bothers me is the part that I don't know and I don't know that I don't know it.

Sounds like someone that has been schooled in JMW.

Funny thing is, people figure if an old farmer can make money with cattle, anyone can.

Problem with some that think the "Old Farmer" is making it in the Cattle business, is one has to take into consideration, the "Old Farmer's" land is no doubt paid for if he had to buy it at all, probably was inherited. Like most older Cattlemen I know, they had a public job, and somehow juggled working and Farming at the same time.

I know one Boy that quit his lucrative day job, and makes money off Cattle. He's sharper than a tack, has a Registered herd, and Commercial Herd as well, his Wife brings home a good check every week.He's the only one I know, that has been so sucessful he could rely on Cattle with his share of bringing home the Bacon. One thing to remember though is he leases a lot more land than he owns.

Leasing can be a win win situation. There are many land owners who want to maintain ag exemptions on property simply for property tax purposes. This county I live in is awful for taxes. If someone doesn't want to bother with cattle, but wants to keep their exemption, they can find a responsible person to lease to.

 

[Proverbs 12:10]

A lot of people around these parts are just land investors who run a few head to get the ag exemption. If he has a 500K property it saves him 10K or so in taxes so what if the cattle cost him 2-3K a year in loses. In his mind he still saves 7-8k per year.

 

[Proverbs 12:10]

So if half of all new businesses fail, then half of them make it. It seems if you put in your time and study/research your butt off and get a very experienced mentor you have a decent chance.

Yes, a 50 per cent decent chance.
Whatever I do, I pretty well know what I know. The part that bothers me is the part that I don't know and I don't know that I don't know it.

Sounds like someone that has been schooled in JMW.

Funny thing is, people figure if an old farmer can make money with cattle, anyone can.

A guy named Geoffrey Colvin in an article "What It Takes To Be Great", says that most people don't ever experience success because they are not prepared to deal with the long, hard road to get there. He is quoted as saying, "Even the most accomplised people need around ten years of hard work before becoming world class, a pattern so well established researchers call it the ten year rule."* After five years in the cattle business it appears this rule is true for the cattle business as well.

*This was most recently quoted by Allan Nation in the January 2007 issue of The Stockman GrassFarmer

 

[Susie David]

I believe that I see a trend developing...the folks that farm for a living tend to keep records, know their stock, have a accurate herd book and can tell you how much it takes to raise a calf by the day and can project the expected $$ that the animal will bring at any given day during the year. They know the cost of equipment and supplies and have the resources to make a good deal when it presents itself, they know when to cull and how to select the genetics to improve the herd and yield bigger bucks at sale time. They enjoy the smell of the farm wafting in tghe kitchen window whle having coffee at sunrise. But then they are just farmers and ranchers.
Folks that have found a new tax shelter and keep a herd of sale barn culls because they are the right color or were the right price seem to not cae about things as cost per gain and the yield per acre of alfalfa or the seasonal price fluxuation of the market. Most do know what a schedule F is and know the section 179 depreciation caust the accountant told then that is what to do. Have folks that can't AI their cows because they have no chute or pens and can't catch the animals anyway.
We haven't decided if we want to be a cow/calf operation or a feeder operation...the bride buys hefers and bred cows when we go looking for steers. Small time operation only slaughter twenty four head a year and will sell a few heifers this spring.
And that's my two bits worth.
Oh yeah...add never trust a cow to the list.
Dave Mc

 

[tncattle]

So leasing seems to be the way to go if you don't already have the land in place or the huge $ to buy it outright.

 

[eric]

A lot of people around these parts are just land investors who run a few head to get the ag exemption. If he has a 500K property it saves him 10K or so in taxes so what if the cattle cost him 2-3K a year in loses. In his mind he still saves 7-8k per year.

And for some reason, some folks in here have a problem with that.

 

[vs_cattle]

Keeping Your Over Head Down Make More $ In Your Pocket

 

[farmerjohn]

Me and the wife are planning on keeping both our jobs for the first year. Then hopefully I will leave my teaching job and devote full time to cattle and she can still keep her job as it is 98% work from home on the computer with a steady salary.

Last I heard it takes about 300 moma cows to make a full time living on the farm. Even if your wife brings home half of the bacon you had better keep your teaching job unless you got 150 head of moma cows and the land for it.
How much experience do you have in the cattle business? It doesn't sound like much from your posts. I suggest that you teach another 10 years and get some experience before you try to go full time.

 

[Cowdirt]

Me and the wife are planning on keeping both our jobs for the first year. Then hopefully I will leave my teaching job and devote full time to cattle and she can still keep her job as it is 98% work from home on the computer with a steady salary.

Last I heard it takes about 300 moma cows to make a full time living on the farm. Even if your wife brings home half of the bacon you had better keep your teaching job unless you got 150 head of moma cows and the land for it.
How much experience do you have in the cattle business? It doesn't sound like much from your posts. I suggest that you teach another 10 years and get some experience before you try to go full time.

Farmer John, I think you're giving good advice. However there's a lot of folks in my area who have their wife working jobs with benefits, ie; insurance , retirement, etc. husbands sitting at the coop or country store b.s.ing. Guess they go dragging home about shift change with a tired look on their face like "this cow farming is rough". A good deal if you can swing it I guess. Don't think I could pull it off.

 

[tryinhard]

Farmer john, I think you gave the best advice, of any and all posts. I don't know anyone who makes a living from cattle, {only}. You have to love it, {pros n cons}, just keep looking for a better day, play the game as best you can. It's not all sweet n rosie.



tryinhard

 

[tncattle]

I do appreciate everyone's honesty, I really do. Honestly right now I can't figure out why anyone farm cattle by the responses I get on here. It seems everyone just says how hard and non-profitable it is. It just appears anything I ask/post gets plenty of negative responses of how not to do and why not to do and so on. Oh well, I'll keep asking or I won't learn anything.

 

[JMichal]

Then again if you make alot of cash, you could buy the land with a note (write off the interest), run the farm, and someday sell off land, & herd. That is when you get pd. Just like any buisness. It will become what the managment makes it.

Yearly income nowdays is scary, in for the long run, Go for it. Allthough I have felt that way with all my buisness ventures, I am self made, and have done fair so I look at things as do average income earners, Looking for low risk fast income cattle is a no. Medium risk long term cattle will work.

Fun, enjoyment, and self fullfillment are super in the cattlle buisness. However if you do not enjoy working with or take great pride in your animals don't start.

The pay is in Tax credits, retirement, and or lifestyle.

 

[farmerjohn]

I do appreciate everyone's honesty, I really do. Honestly right now I can't figure out why anyone farm cattle by the responses I get on here. It seems everyone just says how hard and non-profitable it is. It just appears anything I ask/post gets plenty of negative responses of how not to do and why not to do and so on. Oh well, I'll keep asking or I won't learn anything.

It's fine to ask and learn. We are trying to help you realize that 95% or beef producers do not make a living at it full time.

The latest data I have read shows that the average cow-calf producer makes $100 profit per calf. So how many will you have to have to make a living?

I have been raising cattle for 30 years. The land and cattle are paid for. So is all of the equipment. I have over $150,00 invested in equipment, probably $50,000 in cattle and $400,00 in the land. It was all paid for with off farm income. If I could make a full time living at it, I would. I could sell all of this stuff and invest the money in a bank and make a lot better return on my investment.
I stay in for several reasons. One, I love the land and cows. Two, when I retire this is where I will be full time.
Most of us here dream about being full time producers, but it's hard to do in this day and time.

 

[skyline]

Stepper:

I'm not trying to argue with these questions.

Are you in the cattle business? If so are you losing money? If you're losing money then why are you doing it?

Remember I'm researching so I am asking serious probing questions.[/quote

The answer to you question for us is two-fold:
1. We are using the ag to develop/improve the land value - fencing, water wells, planting usable grass, ponds/fish, road construction etc
2. We WILL start making a profit on the cattle once all of the capital improvements are finished

I agree. Ranching for us is a part time endeavor, but one that we love. My wife and I chose to purchase the land as a great place to raise our family. There is no way the cows will pay for the land. (Don't think that place exists anymore in the U.S., does it?) My goal is to pay for and improve the ranch using excess money from my day job, and then let the cows supplement our income once we retire. We just get to enjoy a lifestyle that we love (land, wildlife, horses, cattle, dogs for me and cats for my wife) in the meantime. And we raise our kids in a place where we can be the major influence in their lives instead of the 7 year old kid next door who is watching Desperate Housewives and MTV.

 

[hersh]

From everything I've seen in my life, cattle farming is not something you can live off of by itself unless you inherit the land/equipment/herd. And most of those are ran into the ground anyways after the folks die. Cattle are supplemental and its what I'm hoping for when I retire(slow down) at 40, plus I square bale, have fruit trees and plan on having around 40 cows by then. I have a year and a half and the remainder of my equipment payments are history, by then I will have sunk 150k in the last 4 years.The land here was 180k for my 130 acres, remodled the little farm house and built my barn and fences(still got a ways to go on these) out of pocket. AND if I play my cards right I just may be able to swing my $800 property taxes out of all this.

 

[medic_941]

tncattle there all saying its hard to make it on farming alone..we have raised cows for years for extra money..me and my wife both work full time jobs and do the farm on the side and we do ok at it...of course we only have 25 cows not 300 like most on here do...my advise is do like we do and start small and keep your fulltime job and work your way up