What I know for a fact.

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

One thing that i know for a fact is that I have much more in common with cattle producers in the US than I do with city people anywhere. My goals are to breathe fresh air, have some space to move around in, and hopefully make a few bucks while I'm at it. It seems crazy to me that we as cattle producers are sniping back and forth over matters like the closed border and the Iraq war instead of trying to find some common ground and make some compromises that work for everybody so that we can just move forward and go back to enjoying our lives. I'm not an R-CALF fan but mostly because of statements like 'Canadian beef is unsafe' when we actually we actually had our feed ban in effect at the same time as the US and our new safety protocols in place before the US. I don't know what amazes me more, the crap that R-CALF tries to pass off as the truth or that there are people out there that are gullible enough to believe it. Oldtimer-I think your view may be a bit skewed on how much beef was actually coming in from Canada being that you live just south of our biggest beef producing province and that will be where the major supply of CDN beef for all of the US would be crossing. I would bet that if you lived in Minnesota, you'd never see a truck. For those of you that think CDN beef affects your supply, we produced 2% of the beef eaten in the US before the border closed. Now you are importing that beef from Brazil and Argentina where they test significantly less than we do. I would think your chance of getting BSE or FMD will have increased with that move. But again, mostly what I know for a fact is that my goals and my values are more like my US cattle producing friends than they are like any city person's and I don't understand why we're fighting instaed of trying to fix this problem together.

 

[la4angus]

But again, mostly what I know for a fact is that my goals and my values are more like my US cattle producing friends than they are like any city person's and I don't understand why we're fighting instaed of trying to fix this problem together.

I agree with you. I think if we would strive to fix the problem together, it would be beneficial to everyone instead of causing hard feelings amongst some of the best people on earth.
Thanks for the post CRR.

 

[Oldtimer]

One thing that i know for a fact is that I have much more in common with cattle producers in the US than I do with city people anywhere. My goals are to breathe fresh air, have some space to move around in, and hopefully make a few bucks while I'm at it. It seems crazy to me that we as cattle producers are sniping back and forth over matters like the closed border and the Iraq war instead of trying to find some common ground and make some compromises that work for everybody so that we can just move forward and go back to enjoying our lives. I'm not an R-CALF fan but mostly because of statements like 'Canadian beef is unsafe' when we actually we actually had our feed ban in effect at the same time as the US and our new safety protocols in place before the US. I don't know what amazes me more, the be nice that R-CALF tries to pass off as the truth or that there are people out there that are gullible enough to believe it. Oldtimer-I think your view may be a bit skewed on how much beef was actually coming in from Canada being that you live just south of our biggest beef producing province and that will be where the major supply of CDN beef for all of the US would be crossing. I would bet that if you lived in Minnesota, you'd never see a truck. For those of you that think CDN beef affects your supply, we produced 2% of the beef eaten in the US before the border closed. Now you are importing that beef from Brazil and Argentina where they test significantly less than we do. I would think your chance of getting BSE or FMD will have increased with that move. But again, mostly what I know for a fact is that my goals and my values are more like my US cattle producing friends than they are like any city person's and I don't understand why we're fighting instaed of trying to fix this problem together.

CattleRack rancher- I agree with the fact that this problem needs to get fixed- but it can not go back to the staus quo it was before the border closure.

Yes living in Montana- we see major imports of beef coming through- but even in the Minnesota area has an effect- slaughter houses that butcher large amounts of old Canadian live cattle ( many dairy) shipped into the states- these are the cattle that effect our prices most- the live cattle- 10% of which are owned by the packers and used to manipulate the market price.

Something most people don't reallize- is that NAFTA has no provisions to guarantee any imports of live cattle- beef yes- live cattle no- it was just something that was opened up when the border opened.

Here in Montana, it is not only R-CALF members, but many NCBA members, FU and FB members and non member cattleman that were slammed by the Canadian government and Cattle Associations. Canadian beef and cattle were allowed to go south, while US cattle that could be grazing side by side to the Canadians-seperated possibly by a barb wire fence- when a storm hadn't washed it out were not allowed to go freely north-They were considered DISEASED. Thousands of dollars of unecessary testing was done to prove that these cattle have no disease. This was used as a trade barrier- BUT
when we ask that Canadians prove their cattle herd ( which has two cases of BSE origin cows) is not diseased, we are called every name in the book.

R-CALF did not go out and recruit anti-beef organizations- there are already many organizations that question USDA's dedication to food safety and feel that we need a COOL law- they just backed R-CALF's stance of making sure the USDA follows through on their policies.

I have no problem with Canadian beef coming into the country as long as they follow the International standards for slaughter- I would like to see this meat marked as Canadian origin- it would allow the consumer the choice if they wanted to buy it or not. But that may not happen because the Packers and Retailers would not be able to pass it off as a US product.

As far as live cattle- I would like to see some permanent marking system-(hot brand). Mexican imported cattle have for years been marked with an M to keep them out of the breeding herd- Canadian cattle could be marked with a C, to take away the temptation of putting one into the US breeding herd. This could get cattle coming into the country much quicker than if we wait for the USDA to develop a Nation wide Mandatory ID system.--But your cattle organizations won't even talk with R-CALF, which has been organized for about 5 years and is really the voice of the grassroots producer. Last I saw was membership was at over 10,500- and increasing by nearly 750 a month. I know over 1800 Montanans belong to it- But the Canadian cattle organizations still see it as a radical movement and won't even discuss issues with them. Can't get anywhere unless you talk and discuss the issues.

 

[ccstockfarms_2003]

Old timer,



Why would you be tempted to put a canadian beef animal in a US herd? It would be hard not to put a "canadian" animal in your herd, since our cattle are so hardy, for tough conditions.


As for Canada we already have a national cattle ID program. Every animal we raise has a CCIA tag and it is trackable and registered to the original owner. And it WORKS! When we had our first case of mad cow it took less than two weeks to fully complete the investigation. When the US had their first case , how long did it take the USDA to track down the animals. They didn't they gave up after a while. The US should have a program that works the same way.


I also would like to have you answer a few questions for me. You mentioned there were alot of cattle coming out of Canada into the US to be slaughtered. How many head of cattle were actually owned by interests in the US? In the past I have fed canadian cattle that were owned by American feedlots and when these cattle were finished they were sent into Nebraska to be slaughtered. I was not the only feedlot in this area that was custom feeding for them. In 2002 there was over 50,000 animals in this area being fed for the same American feedlot. Do you consider this a flood of "canadian" animals into the US market? I don't. The packing plant at Nebraska commented frequently on how well these Canadian animals graded on the rail. We were praised for supreme yields that these animals produced.

The next time I am in the US I will enjoy going through the different states but I will likely bypass "Montana" and spend my hard earned dollars in other US states.

 

[Oldtimer]

ccstockfarms- Putting Canadian cattle into the US herd is one of the main problems. Good heifers may go into the breeding herd, rather than to slaughter. We can't take that chance in cattle coming from a Canadian herd which has 2 BSE origin cows into a US herd that has no BSE origin cases. Thats the reason we need a hot-iron brand. Having spent 30 years in Law Enforcement- not all people are honest- tags come out- both accidentally and intentionally. Until Canada can demonstrate there are no more BSE infected cows in their herd, we can not jeopardize our BSE status with another BSE positive cow with Canadian origin showing up in 4 or 5 years.-- If we wait for the USDA to implement a Nationwide Mandatory ID program before opening the border, it could be 4 or 5 years- many states down here don't even have brand laws or brand depts- this will all have to be set up before they get an ID system.

I have no idea how many cattle in Canada has been owned by American interests- I would bet quite a few because of your dollar value, cheaper costs and lack of ownership , packing and anti trust laws-- but your BSE subsidies showed where 10%+ of fat cattle where owned by the packers (not proven because they told your parliament to stick their subpeona where the sun don't shine). This ownership has been used to regulate the market.

It doesn't matter who owns them- the cattle coming out of Canada have unduly negatively affected the prices of the American cattle. At the passage of NAFTA it wasn't quite as bad- but after the Canadian government dropped your grain-rail subsidies and subsidized putting land back into pasture and hay to expand the Canadian cattle herd by 50%- it became a huge impact.- Live cattle are not a guaranteed NAFTA commodity.

 

[frenchie]

oldtimer

You could,nt just walk in and seeded any old piece of land to pasture or hay.

It had to be land that was,nt suitable for grain.F or G land from my understanding.Plus an approval process. .

A one time payment of around $30.00 acre for a 10 year commitment.Lets see 3.00 a yr an acre Wow wherever would we spend the money.

I personally have never been given one red cent to seed anything here.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

We can't take that chance in cattle coming from a Canadian herd which has 2 BSE origin cows into a US herd that has no BSE origin cases

I find it odd that coincidentally both these cattle were under American ownership when the BSE was diagnosed. Prove to me that this wasn't some sort of R-CALF sabotage.

10%+ of fat cattle where owned by the packers

American owned packers

but after the Canadian government dropped your grain-rail subsidies

This was done at the insistence of the American government.

to expand the Canadian cattle herd by 50%

Canadian cattle inventories are actually lower than they were in the mid-1970's.

This ownership has been used to regulate the market.

Lets see 10% of 2% of American beef supply =.2 of 1%. I'm sure thats having an absolutely huge influence on your market.

I think you've been brainwashed.

 

[Dave]

There are a couple of things which I know to be fact. Where importing live cattle has hurt US producers in the past. One is the exchange rate. The slaughter cow market tends to be a little more local/regional than fat cattle. A couple of years ago the exchange rate dipped in the fall when cattle were coming out of the hills. Our slaughter cow market took about a ten cent dive. I asked a buyer for a small local plant what the reason for this was. He told me that the buyers for the larger plants were buying truck loads of butcher cows out of Canada. With the lower exchange rate those cattle were cheaper than buying ours, so the CDN exchange rate cattle drove our prices down.
The other one is with dairy cattle. Canada has a quota system on the milk production. This keeps dairies from expanding which means that they always have excess heifers and cows. Those heifers always had a ready market in the US because there is no quota on milk production here. That in turn increased milk production which kept prices down. Those cows are also get culled after time and end up at the slaughter plant where they increase our meat supply.
A system with ear tags in certainly not the answer. They get lost. They get replaced. A country of orgin hot brand is the only method that I see working.
Dave

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

One is the exchange rate. The slaughter cow market tends to be a little more local/regional than fat cattle. A couple of years ago the exchange rate dipped in the fall when cattle were coming out of the hills. Our slaughter cow market took about a ten cent dive. I asked a buyer for a small local plant what the reason for this was. He told me that the buyers for the larger plants were buying truck loads of butcher cows out of Canada. With the lower exchange rate those cattle were cheaper than buying ours, so the CDN exchange rate cattle drove our prices down.

Theres nothing I can do about the exchange rate except to push for an international currency. I think then you would see just how lean Canadian farmers run.

A country of orgin hot brand is the only method that I see working.

I don't think that would be a problem with most Canadian producers as long as the buyer picked up the tab.

 

[ollie]

I would never be for an international currency. Our country is already tied to too many starving nations through the international monetary fund and the u.n., etc. We need less international cooperation.

 

[ccstockfarms_2003]

Cattle rack,


I have to agree with you 100%. I had a call from an American feedlot in nebraska wanting to purchase yearlings this fall and get me to fatten them. They are all for getting the border open. The owner of the feedlot said he thought R-Calf should rename them selves the " protectionist moneymakers". He said they want the border to stay closed to Canadian live cattle but they want to dip into our cheap cattle supplies andmake some money off of our woes. I actually read him the submissions that "oldtimer" has submitted on here. And he said he thought he was exaggerating a bit on how Canadian live cattle influence the price in the US. He told me that they have enjoyed doing business with Canadian ranchers over the years and that our cattle perform better in feedlots than the cattle they have in lots there. He is calling for the border to open to full trade.

 

[WORANCH]

Cattle rack,


I have to agree with you 100%. I had a call from an American feedlot in nebraska wanting to purchase yearlings this fall and get me to fatten them. They are all for getting the border open. The owner of the feedlot said he thought R-Calf should rename them selves the " protectionist moneymakers". He said they want the border to stay closed to Canadian live cattle but they want to dip into our cheap cattle supplies andmake some money off of our woes. I actually read him the submissions that "oldtimer" has submitted on here. And he said he thought he was exaggerating a bit on how Canadian live cattle influence the price in the US. He told me that they have enjoyed doing business with Canadian ranchers over the years and that our cattle perform better in feedlots than the cattle they have in lots there. He is calling for the border to open to full trade.

Let me see if I have this right .. If an R-CALF member buys calves and feeds them out he is just lining his pockets at canadians expence , but if a feed lot buys calves and you feed them out and make money its ok ??

 

[Oldtimer]

Cattle rack,


I have to agree with you 100%. I had a call from an American feedlot in nebraska wanting to purchase yearlings this fall and get me to fatten them. They are all for getting the border open. The owner of the feedlot said he thought R-Calf should rename them selves the " protectionist moneymakers". He said they want the border to stay closed to Canadian live cattle but they want to dip into our cheap cattle supplies andmake some money off of our woes. I actually read him the submissions that "oldtimer" has submitted on here. And he said he thought he was exaggerating a bit on how Canadian live cattle influence the price in the US. He told me that they have enjoyed doing business with Canadian ranchers over the years and that our cattle perform better in feedlots than the cattle they have in lots there. He is calling for the border to open to full trade.

ccstockfarms

I have no doubt that someone in Nebraska would not love to cut a deal with you- He could definitely feed out cattle cheaper in Canada- To start off your weaker dollar cuts back on labor costs- Then your cheaper feed cuts back on feed costs (Today barley is listed at $1.25 in Winnipeg- about $.88 cents American- where barley in Montana is listed at $3.25.) Then especially with the huge buildup of calves and yearlings along with the dollar exchange I'm sure Canadian cattle are and will be selling much cheaper than down here. Than you fatten them for him- ship them to the states where he and you can sell them much cheaper than the US feeder- and guess what as this occurs day after day- our fat prices drop- US feeders take bigger losses or smaller profits, and down goes the price of everything - fats, calves, culls.

 

[ccstockfarms_2003]

Just a question Old Timer... where can I buy feed barley for $1.25 in Canada? I sure would like to buy up a whole heap of it. Last time I checked feed barley was running around $3.00 per bushel CDN dollars and that was this afternoon. With the big barley and corn crop up here maybe prices will drop a bit but it hasnt started to show it yet.

Old timer, I have never wished anything upon anyone but I would like you to experience what we have had to deal with since we were blessed with mad cow. I am quite sure if you were on the other side of the 49th parallel and were having the hardships we were, your opinions would be a lot different.

As for the two cows that tested positive for BSE with Canadian connections, why did they both have American ties also? Was the cow that was found in the US monitored 24 hours a day to see what she ate in Washington? Could she not have eaten contaminated feed there? Were we set up by R-Calf? Im not trying to bash anyone these are just questions I wonder about sometime.

In my own opinion there should not be pelleted cattle feed. It should all be rolled natural grain. When you feed pellets there can be anything in them. When you feed whole grain that has been rolled you know exactly its complete grain. No by products, or additives. Cattle gain alot better on steam rolled barley than pellets that are half dust, and god knows what else.[/quote]

 

[Oldtimer]

ccstockfarm- Don't know about the price on barley- Thats what was posted on the Winnipeg exchange.

I really think you and I probably agree on more things than you think- I was probably one of the happiest around when I saw that Canadian producers were finally organizing to put some legal clamps on the packers, get your own packing plants, and develop your own export markets- but then your govt. just kind of rolled over- your cattle organizations seem to be doing nothing (except wait for the border to open) and I don't know if anything will change. Those that are making money off Canadian beef and cattle don't want a change. The thing is I'm sure that if there is no change, than the border and imports will be a hot issue for years to come. In this country if the election is close, it could cost a President his job.

One of the problems I have with trade agreements and imports of products that we already have is that none of these countries are on the same levels-politically, socially, financially,geographically. These variances cause trade advantages to occur- We both may begin seeing it with the Australian Free Trade Act- and may both be standing side by side fighting to survive if the WTO gets their New World Order worldwide free trade act thru- No way will we be able to compete with Brazilian beef, when they still allow slavery to exist.

I don't know if you read the post I put up on the Coffee Shop a couple of days ago about NAFTA- but it has almost bankrupt Montana- a state that back in the 70's and 80's was very rich- Many cattlemen in this area (no matter if they belong to NCBA or R-CALF or whatever) are in pretty much agreement that the border situation cannot go back to the status quo it was before BSE- that Canadian cattle were smothering our market.

I have had to support R-CALF because they are the only cattle organization that has went to battle to try and get the cow/calf man a fair price and protect the US cattleman and cattle industry- If some call that protectionism, so be it.

I'm sure the battling over the border is not over- I know if it is opened to live cattle and protections aren't in place to safeguard the US herd, there will be more lawsuits and probably court orders and stays on the opening. Also when the border opens and the prices nosedive (which I hope they won't-but believe they will) there will be more fair trade actions filed- It won't go away as long as the US has to be used as the middleman.

 

[frenchie]

There are a couple of things which I know to be fact. Where importing live cattle has hurt US producers in the past. One is the exchange rate. The slaughter cow market tends to be a little more local/regional than fat cattle. A couple of years ago the exchange rate dipped in the fall when cattle were coming out of the hills. Our slaughter cow market took about a ten cent dive. I asked a buyer for a small local plant what the reason for this was. He told me that the buyers for the larger plants were buying truck loads of butcher cows out of Canada. With the lower exchange rate those cattle were cheaper than buying ours, so the CDN exchange rate cattle drove our prices down.
The other one is with dairy cattle. Canada has a quota system on the milk production. This keeps dairies from expanding which means that they always have excess heifers and cows. Those heifers always had a ready market in the US because there is no quota on milk production here. That in turn increased milk production which kept prices down. Those cows are also get culled after time and end up at the slaughter plant where they increase our meat supply.
A system with ear tags in certainly not the answer. They get lost. They get replaced. A country of orgin hot brand is the only method that I see working.


Dave

Don,t worry about canadian cows coming south that market is done .If it opens it will be 30 months and under.