What happens on a feedlot?

[bverellen]

Another question for MM or somebody that knows:

Here in Iowa the state has a Green and Gold Tag program. It certifies the calf has received a round of specific vaccinations(green tag) and two rounds(gold tag) and has been weaned for a minimum of 45 and 60 days, respectively. All shots, castration, dehorning must be done by a veterenarian, and after completion a preconditioning certificate is issued.

Would sale barn calves that go thru this program and are backgrounded be considered high or low risk calves and do you think order buyers would pay more for these type of calves if not a full pot load?

Thanks for your post MM, it was very informative.

bart.

 

[milkmaid]

I'm not sure on the order buyers. Since they typically pay better for groups than singles, it would stand to reason that they'd pay more. Esp in the current market, those calves are probably more valuable (since someone else has already taken the initial death loss).

On arrival at the feedlot they'd likely be categorized as medium risk calves, due to source and age - but the preconditioning should keep them out of all the high risk categories. For instance, I'd probably not use antibiotics on arrival, but watch the group very closely and prepare to mass medicate the group if over a certain percentage get sick.

There's a Zoetis BRD program up in Canada that promises a 0% BRD pull rate. I'm not sure if yards will pay more for calves on that program or not... but frankly most of it is just good management. Starts with prevention of PI calves (vaccinating cows), then vaccinating prior to weaning, preconditioning, and metaphylaxis at arrival to the yard. Still not sure there'd be a 0% rate, but I could see it being close.

 

[Brute 23]

The question is not what feedlots should do differently to reduce morbidity and mortality - the die was cast before the cattle ever arrived at the yard. We work with what we're given, but we can't fix immunocompromised, mineral deficient, parasite ridden, unvaccinated, weaned-on-the-truck calves for the owner. The question is: what does the cow-calf producer need to do differently to move their calves from high risk to low risk?

I strongly disagree with this way of thinking.

As a producer I retain quite a few of my own heifers and put them back in to production. From time to time as the market permits we keep bull calves and turn them out on grass to be sold as heavier calves. Some are kept for butcher to divide amongst family, friends, owners, ect.

In all cases we cut out the calves, haul them to some good pipe pens worm them, and make sure they have tags. They typically stay in the pens with hay, #5 or less of grain each, salt and mineral for 20-30 days or until I feel they have calmed down. Then we turn them out in small pastures that adjoin the pens and let the get grass in addition to the other feed.

Now, in all this time I have NEVER doctored one calf doing it like that. Why is it my responsibility to add a bunch of expense to my pocket to make up for the way feed lots operate? That's their problem. I know I'm raising quality animals that are good enough to go back in to production and make beef (been eating it all my life), what they do after that is their problem... and at their own risk.

The majority of us probably do not see the benefits of spending that extra money. I've done it both ways and at the end of the day that buyer is going to pay the bottom dollar he can get if for and put the extra in their pocket. They are going to assume the worse, pay the least, and dock you for any thing they can. I don't blame them because I get why, but at the same time, as long as that continues I'm not going out of my way to prep cattle for them.

 

[Tim/South]

The stocker operator seems to have been over looked in this discussion. Stocker operators are the ones who buy our calves. If I was a green horn and read this discussion I would have been led to believe that all of our calves went straight to feed lots.

 

[Dave]

Once again regional differences raises its head. Realize that Milkmaid is from Idaho and went to vet school in Washington. So it is written with that twist in mind. Up here animals tend to be sold in single owner groups. Year round calving is not the norm. In fact it is fairly rare. Vaccination and weaning information is announced and the buyers do pay for it. Once calves get over 400 pounds there is a substantial difference in price between bulls and steers. Large groups of uniform weaned, vaccinated steers will bring a whole lot more money than single fresh off the cow bull calves with no shots. Often 50 or 60 cents a pound more. Typically calves are weaned heavier than they are in the south. Those 600-700 pound calves are much more likely to go straight to the feedlots. Although there are some stocker operations, they are fewer in number.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

The stocker operator seems to have been over looked in this discussion. Stocker operators are the ones who buy our calves. If I was a green horn and read this discussion I would have been led to believe that all of our calves went straight to feed lots.

Any calves sold around here have to spend some time in a feedlot first, even with stocker operations, because of a little thing called mud, and no grass. Unless of course they get sold in April, but even then quite a few go to a feedlot.
So it's going to depend on your area.

 

[Tim/South]

600 lb calves are 2 way cattle. They can go on feed or grass. The price of corn usually makes that determination. I can never picture a 300 lb. calf going straight to a feed lot.
Order buyers here, and from the online auctions I watch, want 4 weight calves. A 4 weight calf will bring as much money as a 5 weight calf. The stocker wants to put the weight on the calf. The stockers operators say they are more likely to get a carcass to grade prime or choice if they get the calf as a 4 wt. and grow it like they want.

 

[Dave]

600 lb calves are 2 way cattle. They can go on feed or grass. The price of corn usually makes that determination. I can never picture a 300 lb. calf going straight to a feed lot.
Order buyers here, and from the online auctions I watch, want 4 weight calves. A 4 weight calf will bring as much money as a 5 weight calf. The stocker wants to put the weight on the calf. The stockers operators say they are more likely to get a carcass to grade prime or choice if they get the calf as a 4 wt. and grow it like they want.

Once again regional differences. Yes 600 pound calf is a two way deal. They can go on feed or grass. But the vast majority of calves up north are born late winter early spring. They come off the cows in the fall when cattle are brought in out of the hills. So they either go on feed or on a truck and get hauled a long ways to any where that has grass that time of year. The result is most go to the feedlot. Everyone I know that has any amount of cattle will cull a cow who raises a 400 pound calf. One that raises 500 pounders might be getting on the truck too.

 

[brownvet]

Very good post! thanks for sharing.

 

[elkwc]

Good post. As mentioned some things are different regionally. She did say she only spent 2 weeks at the one lot. That isn't enough time to know the operation well.
As many have mentioned in a normal year not many of the lighter calves in this area go straight to a feedlot. Most go to wheat pasture for part of all of the winter and then to the lot. In the lots I've been around some over the last 35 years retained ownership is a small amount. A few lots will have up to a 1/3 but most way below that. I've known many who have fed for years including my BIL. They prefer weights above 6 but more than that if price allows due to less days on feed. And I've never seen the number of people she mentioned for lot size. Again propably region and management style.

 

[LocustDaleCattleCompany]

Glad I finally read this post. Great info within it!

 

[DATorrie]

this sure enlightened me about feedlots! Great article ... thank you for your time in writing it.

What about the baby calves born at the feedlot: How quick before they are removed from the Mother? How much colostrum do they receive? Is it Mother's or artificial colostrum?

DATorrie

 

[Draper]

The question is not what feedlots should do differently to reduce morbidity and mortality - the die was cast before the cattle ever arrived at the yard. We work with what we're given, but we can't fix immunocompromised, mineral deficient, parasite ridden, unvaccinated, weaned-on-the-truck calves for the owner. The question is: what does the cow-calf producer need to do differently to move their calves from high risk to low risk?

I strongly disagree with this way of thinking.

As a producer I retain quite a few of my own heifers and put them back in to production. From time to time as the market permits we keep bull calves and turn them out on grass to be sold as heavier calves. Some are kept for butcher to divide amongst family, friends, owners, ect.

In all cases we cut out the calves, haul them to some good pipe pens worm them, and make sure they have tags. They typically stay in the pens with hay, #5 or less of grain each, salt and mineral for 20-30 days or until I feel they have calmed down. Then we turn them out in small pastures that adjoin the pens and let the get grass in addition to the other feed.

Now, in all this time I have NEVER doctored one calf doing it like that. Why is it my responsibility to add a bunch of expense to my pocket to make up for the way feed lots operate? That's their problem. I know I'm raising quality animals that are good enough to go back in to production and make beef (been eating it all my life), what they do after that is their problem... and at their own risk.

The majority of us probably do not see the benefits of spending that extra money. I've done it both ways and at the end of the day that buyer is going to pay the bottom dollar he can get if for and put the extra in their pocket. They are going to assume the worse, pay the least, and dock you for any thing they can. I don't blame them because I get why, but at the same time, as long as that continues I'm not going out of my way to prep cattle for them.

I absolutely agree with you, brute-- This feedlot propaganda piece places so much focus on the symptoms while failing to address the underlying cause.

 

[Supa Dexta]

You're putting your own calves in your own lot though. Not throwing them on a truck for however long, thru a sale barn with how many 1000 other head, another truck ride for however long and thru whatever weather, and then into another new environment, with mixed cattle and stress stress stress.

If your calves are the ones to get sick and/or die, you can be assured the buyer wont be looking for them again. However if you raise good cattle, and have them weaned, on feed, vaccinated and ready to go to work for the next guy they are worth buying and remember where to get them next year.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

The question is not what feedlots should do differently to reduce morbidity and mortality - the die was cast before the cattle ever arrived at the yard. We work with what we're given, but we can't fix immunocompromised, mineral deficient, parasite ridden, unvaccinated, weaned-on-the-truck calves for the owner. The question is: what does the cow-calf producer need to do differently to move their calves from high risk to low risk?

I strongly disagree with this way of thinking.

As a producer I retain quite a few of my own heifers and put them back in to production. From time to time as the market permits we keep bull calves and turn them out on grass to be sold as heavier calves. Some are kept for butcher to divide amongst family, friends, owners, ect.

In all cases we cut out the calves, haul them to some good pipe pens worm them, and make sure they have tags. They typically stay in the pens with hay, #5 or less of grain each, salt and mineral for 20-30 days or until I feel they have calmed down. Then we turn them out in small pastures that adjoin the pens and let the get grass in addition to the other feed.

Now, in all this time I have NEVER doctored one calf doing it like that. Why is it my responsibility to add a bunch of expense to my pocket to make up for the way feed lots operate? That's their problem. I know I'm raising quality animals that are good enough to go back in to production and make beef (been eating it all my life), what they do after that is their problem... and at their own risk.

The majority of us probably do not see the benefits of spending that extra money. I've done it both ways and at the end of the day that buyer is going to pay the bottom dollar he can get if for and put the extra in their pocket. They are going to assume the worse, pay the least, and dock you for any thing they can. I don't blame them because I get why, but at the same time, as long as that continues I'm not going out of my way to prep cattle for them.

Retained ownership isn't the same as selling at the salebarn, and getting hauled on a truck to a feedlot. That makes for a lot of stress, especially if the animal wasn't weaned, or vac., or started on feed, or terrible genetics. Can't really blame the feedlot for someone else's shortcoming.

 

[Brute 23]

That's their problem. They have issues because of the way they do business.

If you are selling a couple hundred calves direct and can build a relationship then it may be beneficial but just running them thru the ring you are lining their pockets not yours.

 

[Ojp6]

That's their problem. They have issues because of the way they do business.

If you are selling a couple hundred calves direct and can build a relationship then it may be beneficial but just running them thru the ring you are lining their pockets not yours.

Not true at all. Every calf that dies because it wasn't vaccinated hurts every producer that sells cattle at sale barns. The lower the death loss for the feedyard the more they can pay for your cattle when they buy back. That's why cattle up north will consistently outsell cattle in your area and even more so in my area even on cattle that are exactly the same quality. Most people to the north and west (SD,NE,WY,etc) are selling weaned and vaccinated calves, and calves with no vaccinations in the north will generally be docked back to prices you will see in the south, a least .10 a lb dock.

 

[Brute 23]

.10/ lb is not enough to justify me doing it. Cheaper to let the feedlot do it.

"Dock" Is a term used by the sale barn because their cut comes off of gross sales. The producer is not actually getting docked because we operate on net sales. If you keep good books you can see that it is possible to have a higher net with a lower gross... ... I bet the sale barn or feedlot will never tell you that.

 

[Ojp6]

If it costs you .10 cents a lb to vaccinate I can find you something quite a bit cheaper to use.

 

[RanchMan90]

.10/ lb is not enough to justify me doing it. Cheaper to let the feedlot do it.

"Dock" Is a term used by the sale barn because their cut comes off of gross sales. The producer is not actually getting docked because we operate on net sales. If you keep good books you can see that it is possible to have a higher net with a lower gross... ... I bet the sale barn or feedlot will never tell you that.

A dime a lb on those big bramer calves is $60. 2 rounds of vaccinations is $6. Looks like a good investment to me. What am I missing?